Buell engines

Why hasn't Buell taken advantage of the 60 degree liquid cooled, fuel injected twin that Harley is putting in the VRSC? Is it too big, too heavy? I mean there seems to be so much more advantages with the 60 over the 45 in a sport bike :idk: I hear the Buell's are already extremely nimble so a few extra pounds for the huge performance boost and a better sound (imo) is worth it, right? I wonder if we'll see some 60's from Buell in the future..

Why hasn't Buell taken advantage of the 60 degree liquid cooled, fuel injected twin that Harley is putting in the VRSC? Is it too big, too heavy? I mean there seems to be so much more advantages with the 60 over the 45 in a sport bike :idk: I hear the Buell's are already extremely nimble so a few extra pounds for the huge performance boost and a better sound (imo) is worth it, right? I wonder if we'll see some 60's from Buell in the future.. I've always wondered why the v-rod engine isn't in the Buell's. Eric Buell obvisously has some reason for not doing so. I've also heard the v-rod engine isn't all that great of an engine, performance wise....but I have no factual numbers to back that up.

I have a couple guesses... 1) Weight. Don't remember the specifics, but I have seen actual weights for the two engines... The one currently in use is MUCH lighter. 2) Complexity. Buell is all about K.I.S.S. Liquid cooling is just more complexity. 3) Size. Buell has the shortest wheelbases of any sportbikes... Ain't gonna happen if they try to cram in a 60 V-Twin anything... Plus radiator, etc.

Yeah good point about the wheel base. I really wish the Buell's were 600cc I-4's. I'd defiantly make one my first bike. Don't think I want to make my first bike one with a heavy fly wheel that has no engine brake, and completely different handling than any other bike.

like O.S.P. said the v-rod motor is just to big to fit in the frame of the buells plus i dont think there'd even be enough room for the radiator and hoses, but who knows engineers can make anything work.

like O.S.P. said the v-rod motor is just to big to fit in the frame of the buells plus i dont think there'd even be enough room for the radiator and hoses, but who knows engineers can make anything work. Yay for engineers!!! Haha I'm a nerdy loser. :nonod:

I've always wondered why the v-rod engine isn't in the Buell's. Eric Buell obvisously has some reason for not doing so. I've also heard the v-rod engine isn't all that great of an engine, performance wise....but I have no factual numbers to back that up. http://bikez.com/motorcycles/harley-davidson_vrscaw_v-rod_2007.php

http://bikez.com/motorcycles/harley-davidson_vrscaw_v-rod_2007.php :thx1: Going by those numbers...I dont want the v-rod engine. 10 less ft lbs of torque than the current Buelly Eng. No thanks.

:thx1: Going by those numbers...I dont want the v-rod engine. 10 less ft lbs of torque than the current Buelly Eng. No thanks. They have a crazy amount of potential though... Think VRod Destroyer...

They have a crazy amount of potential though... Think VRod Destroyer... Hmm. You may be onto something.

With the proper tuning the V-rod motor will desimate all!

With the proper tuning the V-rod motor will desimate all! Even that crappy Big Dog? :lol:

Even that crappy Big Dog? :lol: :zowned::slol:

You have to remember a few facts about Buells... The SPortster engine has been the choice of HD Racers for 50 years because it has always put out more power per pound than any other HD motor, and that includes the VRod. The Buell was designed around the Sportster motor and not designed like a lot of bikes are, around the frame and the motor being an afterthought. With the motor being a stress member and part of the frame, you can't just stick another motor in there either! It would require re-engineering the entire bike for a less capable motor. Cost is also a factor. You can take a stock Sportster engine and get gobs of power out of it a lot cheaper than you can buy a stock VRod motor. The price of the Buell would shoot up by a hefty percentage and that is not even taking the R&R amortization into account. Last, and to the HD enthusiast, certainly not least, is that the Sportster is pure HD while the VRod does not have the same heritage (sound, feel, history). Some people feel that it is a step forward, but a lot of us are not as enamoured with change for change's sake.

That is true Preacher... even though the V-rod has been around there are alot of peeps that don't like it and its glycol. However, the real old schoolers don't even like the Evo motor and REALLY don't like the twin cam.

That is true Preacher... even though the V-rod has been around there are alot of peeps that don't like it and its glycol. However, the real old schoolers don't even like the Evo motor and REALLY don't like the twin cam. :iagree: Yeah...absolutely. Alot of the HD guys I know shun the V-rod. They HATE it.

You have to remember a few facts about Buells... The SPortster engine has been the choice of HD Racers for 50 years because it has always put out more power per pound than any other HD motor, and that includes the VRod. The Buell was designed around the Sportster motor and not designed like a lot of bikes are, around the frame and the motor being an afterthought. With the motor being a stress member and part of the frame, you can't just stick another motor in there either! It would require re-engineering the entire bike for a less capable motor. Cost is also a factor. You can take a stock Sportster engine and get gobs of power out of it a lot cheaper than you can buy a stock VRod motor. The price of the Buell would shoot up by a hefty percentage and that is not even taking the R&R amortization into account. Last, and to the HD enthusiast, certainly not least, is that the Sportster is pure HD while the VRod does not have the same heritage (sound, feel, history). Some people feel that it is a step forward, but a lot of us are not as enamoured with change for change's sake. Awesome post rept.....:dthumb:

I really think they need to scrap the POS trany before they start to worry about the power plant. While the bike may be a bit down on top end HP it is still a stump puller down low but the trany on these is defiantly not up to snuff under any measurement of a modern sports bike. I find it hard to believe they kept a 5 speed grinder box that is about the worst trany I have ever had in any bike I have ever owned, and I have owned a lot of bike over the years, when they redesigned the bike back in 2003.

I really think they need to scrap the POS trany before they start to worry about the power plant. While the bike may be a bit down on top end HP it is still a stump puller down low but the trany on these is defiantly not up to snuff under any measurement of a modern sports bike. I find it hard to believe they kept a 5 speed grinder box that is about the worst trany I have ever had in any bike I have ever owned, and I have owned a lot of bike over the years, when they redesigned the bike back in 2003. It would be nice to see a 6 speed in these Buells for sure. And something a bit smoother...although I dont think they are quite as bad as you make them out to be. :lol:

It would be nice to see a 6 speed in these Buells for sure. And something a bit smoother...although I dont think they are quite as bad as you make them out to be. :lol: Suposedly they made a lot of changes in 06 but my 04 is as pretty poor for a bike with only 7K on it. I am not saying the trany is unusable but rather I can see no reason for it to feel like it is grinding going into second just because it is 95 Deg. outside and the bike is a little warm. Go Under the knowledge vault on bad weather bikers and you will see I am not alone. I am going to retro fit my clutch with the 06 parts to hopefully help with the situation but we will see.

Suposedly they made a lot of changes in 06 but my 04 is as pretty poor for a bike with only 7K on it. I am not saying the trany is unusable but rather I can see no reason for it to feel like it is grinding going into second just because it is 95 Deg. outside and the bike is a little warm. Go Under the knowledge vault on bad weather bikers and you will see I am not alone. I am going to retro fit my clutch with the 06 parts to hopefully help with the situation but we will see. My '07 shifts nearly as smoothly as my old Ninj... It's still in break-in too... :luck:

Switching to synthetic oils will also help with this...

Switching to synthetic oils will also help with this... Already planning on doing so during my first service...

I wouldn't suggest that. Most companies would not suggest synthetic oils till after 3,000 miles. When I switched on my chop.. I switch to synth oil in my primary, engine, and tranny. Haven't noticed any difference in the primary. But the motors valve train is quieter. And the tranny is smoother and less clunking. I'm sorry but I don't know this next thing.. Does the Buells run seperate oils. engine, primary, tranny??? I might be able to give some good suggestions if so...

Does the Buells run seperate oils. engine, primary, tranny??? I might be able to give some good suggestions if so... Yes the engine oil is in the swing arm and the trany/primary oil is held in the primary cover. From the factory they have gear oil in the primary/Trany and motor oil in the motor/swingarm

Since that Buell is owned by Harley-Davidson and Harley is controlling the money, you're not going to see a lot of research and development to be spent for hotrodding an engine for the Buells. Buell sales are not exactly spectacular so HD isn't going to spend the extra bucks (even though they can afford it). Say what you will about The Motor Company, they do know how to make money. America's motorcycling pride isn't about making the fastest bikes any more. America's motorcycling pride is about "coolness" and "attitude", hence HD is selling like hot cakes to all of those people who grew up wanna be like Peter Fonda's Easy Rider or playing Billy Badass Hell's Angels marauders. The supposedly hardcore riders claim that Harleys are made for long distance cruising. Pray tell then why is it that when I do interstate ridings I usually see Goldwings and BMW touring bikes (and a red Aprilia:wink: )? Back in the days the Sportster was made to combat British sport bikes. The VR1000 made a brief appearance that made my heart fluttered and then HD took a stake to it like I was a vampire. Believe it or not, Americans do want a competitive American sport bike. But the only joint that has the moolah to do so won't make it. I'm not a mechanical engineer so I can't say with certainty, but I'm sure that with R&D even the 45-degree aircool V-twin can be made to be highly competitive. No, it will never put out the oomph of the watercooled V-twin or the watercooled I-4, but it can be made competitive. Just look at the BMW R1200S: 1200-cc aircooled flat twin churning out 122-hp and 82-lbft of torque. Kicking ass against the watercooled V-twin and competitive against the watercooled I-4. Who had ever heard of that? But BMW just placed mid-pack in the Le Mans endurance racing against Japanese and Italian liter I-4s. Hell, it even beat out the Ducati 1098 and the MV Agusta F4 1000. All it takes is commitment and money from Harley-Davidson to make Buell great. But you won't see it.

I wouldn't suggest that. Most companies would not suggest synthetic oils till after 3,000 miles. When I switched on my chop.. I switch to synth oil in my primary, engine, and tranny. Haven't noticed any difference in the primary. But the motors valve train is quieter. And the tranny is smoother and less clunking. I'm sorry but I don't know this next thing.. Does the Buells run seperate oils. engine, primary, tranny??? I might be able to give some good suggestions if so... Really? I thought that after the initial 1k, everything was A-Ok... Good to know... I am very interested in your suggestions... Yes the engine oil is in the swing arm and the trany/primary oil is held in the primary cover. From the factory they have gear oil in the primary/Trany and motor oil in the motor/swingarm What he said...

Really? I thought that after the initial 1k, everything was A-Ok... Good to know... I am very interested in your suggestions... What he said... Well like I said... Big Dog suggest after 3K as well as S&S. Now you basically have a HD sporty drivetrain. That being said... there are alot of primary/tranny oil combos. I'm not sure about running the Shockproof though. That's what I run in my Baker Tranny on the dog. But its a seperate oil. I have ran HD dino (normal) oils in my dog up until the switch to synth. BUt HD also makes a good synthetic oil. Here's a shot of the primary/tranny oil called Formula X. I'm pouring it into the primary. But I used the same stuff in my tranny on that service. http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l311/cjclark69/BDM/How%20To/Maintance062.jpg And here's me pouring in the motor oil http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l311/cjclark69/BDM/How%20To/Maintance048.jpg

I really think they need to scrap the POS trany before they start to worry about the power plant. While the bike may be a bit down on top end HP it is still a stump puller down low but the trany on these is defiantly not up to snuff under any measurement of a modern sports bike. I find it hard to believe they kept a 5 speed grinder box that is about the worst trany I have ever had in any bike I have ever owned, and I have owned a lot of bike over the years, when they redesigned the bike back in 2003. yeah.that shocked me too....thought the shifting would be like butter on a buell....its a very definite shift thats for sure..