PLEASE GOD NO!!! Ducati to merge with Harley????

ZOMG :yikes: Buy a ducati before the revs get cut in half and old yuppies start hanging tassles and crap on them :cry: LINK (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/209fe0b8-18a6-11dc-a961-000b5df10621,dwp_uuid=e8477cc4-c820-11db-b0dc-000b5df10621.html) Ducati would consider Harley-Davidson merger ‘anytime,’ CFO says By Heather West in New York Published: June 12 2007 06:44 | Last updated: June 12 2007 06:44 Ducati Motor Holding, the listed Italian motorcycle manufacturer, would consider a merger with US-based Harley-Davidson “anytime”, said Enrico D’Onofrio, CFO. A merger with Harley-Davidson would be “totally complementary”, he said, responding to speculation in the market that the two firms had been in talks. And while he declined to comment on the speculation, he did say that the two companies are similar in that they create recreational bikes that consumers fantasize about. “People want to buy a dream.” Harley-Davidson has an older consumer profile, with an average age of 55, while Ducati owners are about 35, on average. Half of all Ducati owners in the US also own a Harley, D’Onofrio added. A potential combination with the US company could also help Ducati with procurement, as Harley is a larger company that is able to get better quality products at lower prices. A marriage would also increase distribution opportunities for Ducati, which is a relatively small manufacturer. “In the US, we do not have critical mass,” D’Onofrio said. “In this market, you must.” D’Onofrio said Harley could also stand to benefit, as it could be interested in expanding internationally. “The US market is flattening,” D’Onofrio said. Asked if Harley-Davidson has ever visited Ducati’s factory in Bologna, the executive said: “Yes, we are good friends.” He said Harley visited as recently as two months ago. Still, D’Onofrio acknowledged that some at the top of the company believe a combination with another company could dilute the Ducati brand, which dates back to the 1920s. But D’Onofrio said it is his opinion that the company could maintain its strong brand identity, even in the case of a strategic buyout. Ducati faced difficult times in 2005 and 2006, but now has a new shareholder and is focused on reducing fixed costs and increasing margins. The company has decided to limit the number of its entry bikes, and focus on its higher-end and higher-margin motorcycles, D’Onofrio said. Texas Pacific Group sold its 30% minus one share stake in Ducati in March 2006, after holding it from 1996, to Investindustrial, an Italian private equity firm. The company has also changed its R&D structure, focusing more on racing, and has brought in a former Toyota executive to oversee quality, D’Onofrio said. The executive estimates that Ducati will be ready to consider a “marriage” in about one- to- three years, or once it meets its goals promised to shareholders. D’Onofrio said Ducati aims to reach EBITDA of greater than 14% and to sell 50,000 bikes per year by the end of 2008. The company is currently at about 15% EBITDA, and sold 32,000 bikes in 2006. Also as a result of its restructuring, Ducati has reduced its debt to about 30%, and could therefore also consider acquisitions, D’Onofrio said. Ducati once considered a purchase of Moto Guzzi, which has since been acquired by Piaggio. Husqvarna could also be a potential fit, but is likely to be acquired by BMW, and is therefore not really on the market, D’Onofrio said. He also downplayed the likelihood of another private equity buyout, explaining that after the involvement of TPG and Investindustrial, Ducati now needs to focus on its strategic outlook. “I truly think we need to find an industrial alliance,” he said. “It’s clear the market is consolidating. The Japanese own more than 80% of the market,” D’Onofrio noted. He cited speculation regarding a Piaggio and Harley-Davidson tie-up, as well as a Piaggio and Ducati combination, which he said could both be logical scenarios. But for Ducati, D’Onofrio said: “If you ask me, the best scenario is Harley.” Ducati has longstanding relationships with both Unicredit and Mediobanca, but D’Onofrio said Mediobanca knows the company best. Ducati is not seeking advisors in the US, but has worked with Merrill Lynch and Morgan Stanley in the past for private placements. The US and Italy each generate about 25% of Ducati sales, while Germany, UK, France, Japan and the rest of the world bring in 10% each, D’Onofrio said. Investindustrial, BS Investimenti and HOPP together own about 30% of Ducati. Ducati trades at approximately 10x EBITDA and has a market capitalization of EUR 476m (USD 640m). But then again...I would buy a cruiser if it had a desmo in it.......wait no I wouldn't.

I'm not buyin' it...:sorry:

I'm not buyin' it...:sorry: Not buyin their bikes? Or not buying the story? It's the Financial Times, pretty reputable paper from what I understand. They use big words and stuff, convinced me.

Not buyin their bikes? Or not buying the story? It's the Financial Times, pretty reputable paper from what I understand. They use big words and stuff, convinced me. I already have one of their bikes... I am not buyin' the story...

I already have one of their bikes... I am not buyin' the story... Ahhh gotcha. Forgot Buell was "technically" a Harley. That is one bike I would deff consider buying.

:nonod: http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o302/saverok69/whenindoubt.jpg

http://gallery.upshizzle.com/albums/06.07/wut.bmp

WTF? it states- Harley is a larger company that is able to get better quality products at lower prices.:wbs: :wbs: :wbs: :wbs: :wbs: :wbs: :wbs: hows come they leak oil still.... and cost a flippin arm and a leg?????

WTF? it states- Harley is a larger company that is able to get better quality products at lower prices.:wbs: :wbs: :wbs: :wbs: :wbs: :wbs: :wbs: hows come they leak oil still.... and cost a flippin arm and a leg????? Everyone I have known who has bought a Harley in the past 10 years has had ZERO problems with them... Let's see... That's probably 20 people, a total of 30 or so bikes... Whether or not you like them, saying Harley puts out a crap product is just false... Fit and finish are superb, reliability is spot on, and chrome anything ain't cheap...

a Duc/HD merger would be a horrible thing. just think of how much MORE expensive a ducati would be. probably double the price they are now. HD makes some nice stuff, its just completely overpriced and I dont care for spending that much. Ducati, well expensive but REALLY REALLY nice bikes.

the reasons they are looking at a merger is to extend sales breadth, and reduce prices on parts acquisition through Harley's larger negotiation potential due to their size. this is the same as Ford buying Aston Martin. Its not like ducati's are going to start showing up with harley parts. Its strictly financial.

a Duc/HD merger would be a horrible thing. just think of how much MORE expensive a ducati would be. probably double the price they are now. HD makes some nice stuff, its just completely overpriced and I dont care for spending that much. Ducati, well expensive but REALLY REALLY nice bikes. Apples and oranges... Ducati is for sportbikes, what HD is for cruisers... and both start at around the same $$$. the reasons they are looking at a merger is to extend sales breadth, and reduce prices on parts acquisition through Harley's larger negotiation potential due to their size. this is the same as Ford buying Aston Martin. Its not like ducati's are going to start showing up with harley parts. Its strictly financial. Right... so Ducati's could actually get cheaper... Not likely, but possible.

I like the idea. that is all

I like the idea. that is all :iagree: , but I'll believe it when I see it... I cannot think of any downfall to this merger...

IM going to have to raise the :wbs: on this one. It will never happen.

Interesting Reas but :idk:

harley has a trademark sound and feel. it is completely the opposite market for ducati. this is a bean counter deal that will benifit the share holders. mergers are good, it reduces overhead (lay off redudant resources: employees). -a|ex

this will bring down the price of a Ducati while ensuring product integrity... whats the problem here?

this will bring down the price of a Ducati while ensuring product integrity... whats the problem here? Are you sure about that? :skep:

oops, relace price with value (haha this was a 2 part joke)

can we say Aermacchi? another Itailain company Harley merged with in the sixties and early seventies. ever seen a harley dirt bike or 50cc scooter? well, they made them. might even see ducatti engineering on the buells and v-rods, or how about a desmo bagger? interesting story.

can we say Aermacchi? another Itailain company Harley merged with in the sixties and early seventies. ever seen a harley dirt bike or 50cc scooter? well, they made them. might even see ducatti engineering on the buells and v-rods, or how about a desmo bagger? interesting story. dude ducati and buell combining forces would be effin sweet IMO i could only imagine the beast that would come from that, but of course it'll probablly never happen. oh and for you guys saying harleys are overpriced a new 07 sportster starts at $6500 even new 600s start at $8000 and yea those big bikes are spendy but your buying alot (literally) of bike too

a Duc/HD merger would be a horrible thing. just think of how much MORE expensive a ducati would be. probably double the price they are now. HD makes some nice stuff, its just completely overpriced and I dont care for spending that much. Ducati, well expensive but REALLY REALLY nice bikes. I don't know a lot of good points have been made I think though it may create something hawtttt Im a sportbike guy but visiting the HD shops and seeing that V Rod damnnnn and HD does put out a quality product and they keep the value u can buy a HD and sell it 10 years later for almost the same price u payed for it as long as you take care of it I guess we'll jus have to wait and see what happens We are stuck in the past scared of change half of us prob can't afford a DUC anyway so who cares im pretty sure they pooled and researched with the current and past owners to see if a majority would even entertain this idea Everyone was having these same conversations about the current sportbikes we all love, the new Moto Gp stuff and now were like:drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :2cents:

Everyone I have known who has bought a Harley in the past 10 years has had ZERO problems with them... Let's see... That's probably 20 people, a total of 30 or so bikes... Whether or not you like them, saying Harley puts out a crap product is just false... Fit and finish are superb, reliability is spot on, and chrome anything ain't cheap... my dad bought a new sportster 883 back in 01. seeped oil from day one out of one of the plugs on the lower end on the clutch side. also just out of warrenty the rear rocker box gasket decided to start leaking. easy to fix b/c its like working on an old tractor. and we loved the oil blow by out of the air cleaner all over the pants when traveled on the turnpike. people told him he bought the cheep harley so it wasnt as good as the bigger ones. i dont care if its a ninja 250 or a zx14r you should expect quailty from what you buy.:2cents:

my dad bought a new sportster 883 back in 01. seeped oil from day one out of one of the plugs on the lower end on the clutch side. also just out of warrenty the rear rocker box gasket decided to start leaking. easy to fix b/c its like working on an old tractor. and we loved the oil blow by out of the air cleaner all over the pants when traveled on the turnpike. people told him he bought the cheep harley so it wasnt as good as the bigger ones. i dont care if its a ninja 250 or a zx14r you should expect quailty from what you buy.:2cents: Oil blow by is standard for the Sportster engine... Fill the oil to the lower level and you won't have this problem.

Oil blow by is standard for the Sportster engine... Fill the oil to the lower level and you won't have this problem. i know its a common thing but how many years does it take to fix a simple quirk?? the problem is fixed, my dad sold the hardley and bought a FZ1.

blow by is common on alot of motors, ever hear of a pcv valve. that's what it's for. but i agree, it is a common problem on harleys. i've actually seen people put maxi pads in the air cleaner cover to catch it. typically it's just a mist that is supposed to recirculate through the intake. it's funny though, because harley owners accept these type of problems with thier bikes, and actually will make excuses to make it sound ok. i dunno why. read any v-twin orientated magazine and you will see all kinds of fix-it articles. the aftermarket makes a killing selling cures for factory defaults.the current major one is a whining noise in fifth gear in the new six speed trannies. there are a ton of complaints about this. a baker upgrade to fix it runs about 900 bucks without labor. but being a harley mechanic, it keeps me in business. i will never run out of work. ha ha

Now there's rumors of Honda buying Harley....:idk: Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/mergersNews/idUSN2248287920070622) yahoo (http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070622/harley_davidson_mover.html?.v=1) I don't really like harleys or honda's so meh... Looks like Harley is getting itchy to make a move, either by buying ducati or getting bought by honda, due to their lackluster sales Harley-Davidson Roars on Takeover Rumor Harley-Davidson (nyse: HOG - news - people ) rumbled north on Friday amid dubious rumors that Honda (nyse: HMC - news - people ) was ready to purchase the motorcycle maker. Shares of Harley-Davidson initially rose 6.3% but settled to a 4.2% gain, or $2.51, to $62.63 by noon trading. However, despite the investor euphoria over the prospect of a Honda-Harley merger, there's a slim chance that Honda will follow through because of regulatory hurdles. If Honda and Harley combined, the union would control 65% of the U.S. motorcycle market. The next leading competitor, Yamaha, would play a very distant second fiddle at 16%. That kind of stronghold on the motorcycle market would not please the Federal Trade Commission, which has squashed other, more innocuous mergers. Recently, the FTC rejected Whole Foods (nasdaq: WFMI - news - people )' bid to acquire Wild Oats because the arrangement would stifle competition in the natural and organic foods sector. (See: "Whole Foods' Wild Oater." ) "I'd be surprised if there was a Honda and Harley-Davidson combination, basically for regulatory and cultural reasons," RBC Capital Markets analyst, Edward Aaron told Forbes.com on Friday. "Harley is an iconic, American brand. I don't think it would be a great fit if they were under the ownership of a larger Japanese corporation." Aaron also said it was unlikely that Harley would be the target of a leveraged buyout. "Although an LBO is more plausible than a merger with Honda, the math behind such a transaction is not highly compelling," he said. He then added that Harley is already a well operated business with a high margin profile and it would be difficult for an LBO investor to both pay a meaningful premium at the current price and generate a suitable return. Investors may have been eager to ride the coattails of the Honda rumor because of Harley's lackluster performance as of late. Since November, shares of Harley have fallen 17%. In the first quarter, profits plunged 18% amid tepid sales and a three-week strike at a major production plant. While the strike was a negative one-time event, weak demand and an industry-wide slowdown was at the crux of the slip. Harley is also an unexpected victim of the subprime crunch, its financial services arm battered by higher defaults on its subprime loans.

Makes me want to yak just thinking about it. :hang:

The american bike would be gone if Honda bought it.

Everyone I have known who has bought a Harley in the past 10 years has had ZERO problems with them... Let's see... That's probably 20 people, a total of 30 or so bikes... Whether or not you like them, saying Harley puts out a crap product is just false... Fit and finish are superb, reliability is spot on, and chrome anything ain't cheap... Huh, the few people I know that own Harley's and Buells have had problems with them at low milage, less than 3k. But why not combine Harley and Ducati. They are both over priced and make a lot of noise.

is it really that far fetched :scratch: http://www.roehrmotorcycles.com/ doesnt say it ducati related but damn sure looks like it... But why not combine Harley and Ducati. They are both over priced and make a lot of noise.look at the MSRP (last line) of the link above

Huh, the few people I know that own Harley's and Buells have had problems with them at low milage, less than 3k. But why not combine Harley and Ducati. They are both over priced and make a lot of noise. I owned an '02 Buell Cyclone. Zero problems. Have owned six Harleys. Zero problems. Can't say the same for Honda (Blowned stator) or BMW (Clutch). Ducati's and MV's have also been problem free. One spends more for a H-D or Ducati. One also sells them for more. Many only look at the buy side of the transaction. The other day I bought a $$$bike selling a Honda and a $$$BMW. Was glad I had the $$$BMW to throw into the mix. One does not have to put an aftermarket pipe on the H-D or Duc.

I owned an '02 Buell Cyclone. Zero problems. Have owned six Harleys. Zero problems. Can't say the same for Honda (Blowned stator) or BMW (Clutch). Ducati's and MV's have also been problem free. One spends more for a H-D or Ducati. One also sells them for more. Many only look at the buy side of the transaction. The other day I bought a $$$bike selling a Honda and a $$$BMW. Was glad I had the $$$BMW to throw into the mix. One does not have to put an aftermarket pipe on the H-D or Duc. on a HD they do the stock ones sound like the have a sock stuck up their @ss.

on a HD they do the stock ones sound like the have a sock stuck up their @ss. Subjective. Many H-D riders ride with the stock exhaust. Saw a bunch today as a matter of fact. With the move to the 96" in '07, and changes to engine/tranny, H-D was able to increase the volume from the mufflers with the tranny being quieter... and pass EPA scrutiny. Sounds quite nice. For additional p-o-v from a previous H-D skeptic... http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20061216/news_lz1dd16bold.html

Subjective. Many H-D riders ride with the stock exhaust. Saw a bunch today as a matter of fact. With the move to the 96" in '07, and changes to engine/tranny, H-D was able to increase the volume from the mufflers with the tranny being quieter... and pass EPA scrutiny. Sounds quite nice. For additional p-o-v from a previous H-D skeptic... http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20061216/news_lz1dd16bold.html real bikers? or the doctor lawyer types?? :lol:

Both.

Both. If I had a Chopper it would have straight pipes :lol: