How bad is the immigration problem?

Found on Craigslist: Illegals are treated better than US citizens and we're a bunch of suckers and dead beat fools for letting it happen. Subject: Parkland Memorial Hospital in Dallas , Texas is a fairly famous institution and for a variety of reasons: Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 10:48:43 -0700 (PDT) Parkland Memorial Hospital in Dallas , Texas is a fairly famous institution and for a variety of reasons: 1. John F. Kennedy died there in 1963 2. Lee Harvey Oswald died there shortly after 3. Jack Ruby-who killed Lee Harvey Oswald, died there a few years later..by coincidence 'On the flip side, Parkland is also home to the second busiest maternity ward in the country with almost 16,000 new babies arriving each year. (That's almost 44 per day---every day) A recent patient survey indicated that 70 percent of the women who gave birth at Parkland in the first three months of 2006 were illegal immigrants.That's 11,200 babies born every year just in Dallas According to the article, the hospital spent $70.7 million delivering 15,938 babies in 2004 but managed to end up with almost $8 million dollars in surplus funding. Medicaid kicked in $34.5 million, Dallas County taxpayers kicked in $31.3 million and the feds tossed in another $9.5 million. The average patient in Parkland 's maternity wards is 25 years old, married and giving birth to her second child. She is also an illegal immigrant. By law, pregnant women cannot be denied medical care based on their immigration status or ability to pay. OK, fine. That doesn't mean they should receive better care than everyday, middle-class American citizens. But at Parkland Hospital , they do. Parkland Memorial Hospital has nine prenatal clinics. NINE. The Dallas Morning News article followed a Hispanic woman who was a patient at one of the clinics and pregnant with her third child---her previous two were also born at Parkland . Her first two deliveries were free and the Mexican native was grateful because it would have cost $200 to have them in Mexico This time, the hospital wants her to pay $10 per visit and $100 for the delivery but she was unsure if she could come up with the money. Not that it matters, the hospital won't turn her away. (I wonder why they even bother asking at this point.) How long has this been going on? What are the long-term affects? Well, another subject of the article was born at Parkland in 1986 shortly after her mother entered the U.S. illegally---now she is having her own child there as well. (That's right, she's technically a U.S. citizen.) These women receive free prenatal care including medication, nutrition, birthing classes and child care classes. They also get freebies such as car seats, bottles, diapers and formula. Most of these things are available to American citizens as well but only for low-income applicants and even then, the red tape involved is almost insurmountable. Because these women are illegal immigrants, they do not have to provide any sort of legitimate identification---no proof of income. An American citizen would have to provide a social security number which would reveal their annual income---an illegal immigrant need only claim to be poor and the hospital must take them at their word. My husband is a pilot for the United States Navy (yes, he fought in Iraq ) and while the health care is good, we Navy wives don't get any of these perks! Car seats? Diapers? Not so much. So my question is this: Does our public medical care system treat illegal immigrants better than American citizens? Yes it does! As I mentioned, the care I have received is perfectly adequate but it's bare bones, meat and potato medical care---not top of line. Their (the illegals) medical care is free---simply because they are illegal immigrants? Once again, there is no way to verify their income. Parkland Hospital offers indigent care to Dallas County residents who earn less than $40,000 per year. (They also have to prove that they did not refuse health coverage at their current job. Yeah, the 'free' care is not so easy for Americans.) There are about 140 patients who received roughly $4 million dollars for un-reimbursed medical care. As it turns out, they did not qualify for free treatment because they resided outside of Dallas County So the hospital is going to sue them! Illegals get it all free! But U.S citizens who live outside of Dallas County get sued! How stupid is this? As if that isn't annoying enough, the illegal immigrant patients are actually complaining about hospital staff not speaking Spanish. In this AP story, the author speaks with a woman who is upset that she had to translate comments from the hospital staff into Spanish for her husband. The doctor was trying to explain the situation to the family and the mother was forced to translate for her husband who only spoke Spanish. This was apparently a great injustice to her. In an attempt to create a Spanish-speaking staff, Parkland Hospital is now providing incentives in the form of extra pay for applicants who speak Spanish. Additionally, medical students at the University of Texas Southwestern for which Parkland Hospital is the training facility will now have a Spanish language requirement added to their already jammed-packed curriculum. No other school in the country boasts such a ridiculous multi-semester (multicultural) requirement. In the meantime, I have to end my column here. I have to go buy a car seat.' (Ed: Sorry for the length, but this needs wide circulation----particularly to our 'employees' in Congress.) PLEASE SEND THIS TO EVERY US CITIZEN YOU KNOW. If you want to verify accuracy: http://www.snopes.com/politics/immigration/parkland.asp

I am leaving now... To go put my head through the wall. :bas:

:wbs: :wtf: :bs: :cens: :motz: :damn: :rant: :cursin:

there is a difference betw how maternity patients are treated, if one has insurance, then they get private rooms. if one doesn't have insurance (illegals) they will be examined by interns constantly. they will have many strangers sticking their fingers up there daily. -a|ex

there is a difference betw how maternity patients are treated, if one has insurance, then they get private rooms. if one doesn't have insurance (illegals) they will be examined by interns constantly. they will have many strangers sticking their fingers up there daily. -a|ex Not here, all rooms are private.

there is a difference betw how maternity patients are treated, if one has insurance, then they get private rooms. if one doesn't have insurance (illegals) they will be examined by interns constantly. they will have many strangers sticking their fingers up there daily. -a|ex Insurance or no, you still have out of pocket expense... These flucking people get 100% free healthcare... What is wrong with this picture?!?!?!?!

Not here, all rooms are private. do the insured patients get prodded by interns? i was self insured but the hospital considered us as no insurance and it p*ssed me off when interns kept interrupting my visits to stick their finger up my wife. i paid out of pocket (over $5k) for my first kid. again, i paid out of pocket for my next kid even though i was paying cobra (insr for laid off workers). it became costly to pursue reimbursement so i dropped it. when i finally had insr pay, in the same hospital, we were treated like first class citizens. we even received a better nursing staff. no interruptions, rooms were immaculate. doctor was her actual doctor and not a staff doctor. from experience, i doubt that illegals are treated better than citizens. they may receive more benifits, but they are still treated like second class citizens. -a|ex

well illegal arent citizens. But just cause someone doesn't have insurance isn't a reason to discriminate against them. They getting charged the same.

I'm not touching this one but I understand your very well put point I'm a soldier and I have a wife who is in the military also and we have two kids and we are in the health care field and we get retirees and vets all the time we are not allowed to treat who some did 25-30 years and fought in several conflicts but whatever thats just the way it is one day well get it right America land of the free the almighty superpower taking care of everyone but its own there are hundreds of soldiers wounded in Iraq/Afghan/etc.. forgotten about when they can't perform anymore due to injuries caused by defending our great nation:nonod: :nonod:

My baby was born a U.S Citizen...can you say "Adjustment of Status?" :crazy:

Ok, this country is BEYOND FACKED UP. we're so screwed that if all the immigrants left I'm willing to bet our economy would go tits up because they do most of the work. the majority of americans are too lazy to actually do anything, and what they do, they whine about crappy pay. hell, I'm just glad if someone pays me at all, let alone crappy pay.

We Need To Be Like China And Build A Great Wall Around The Country.......look At China...no Mexicans...

We Need To Be Like China And Build A Great Wall Around The Country.......look At China...no Mexicans... Hmmmm. :scratch:

We Need To Be Like China And Build A Great Wall Around The Country.......look At China...no Mexicans... :tt: :tt: ummm thats almost a racist comment:nonod: I thought TWF Members were bigger than that we have legal Immigrants we didn't say no Mexicans I think the point being made is we need to fix a broke system and focus more on hard working Americans who are getting shafted and can't have the same privileges as illegals. Also I want to point out the same thing is going on with our American born prisoners not saying they don't deserve the right to be treated but i saw a news story the other week where we as tax payers were paying a lottttttt of money to keep a cop killer and several other bad guys alive I think they quoted like one of the guys hospital bed cost like 3 or $4000 a month to rent and he was expected to live for 15 to 20 more years you do the math nway let me not rant on I got off my point anyway Keep it clean or:lock: :lock: We have all different types of races on this site that is one thing about riders it brings everyone together

Simple solution: Wanna solve illegal immagration- get rid of the welfare system. This is not to say illegal immigrants are the problem( they are not... they are simply taking advantage of a situation that we have created by feeding and clothing the lazy Americans that refuse to work) it's the lazy Americans that are the problem. If we cut the welfare programs- the lazy Americans would be forced to get off their a$$ and take those jobs that Americans supposedly don't want... hence no job market for illegals. Now all Americans are working- our tax money is not wasted (as much)... and our borders are secure cause there is less draw/opportunity for outsiders. WIN WIN situation. Getting rid of welfare would solve numerous problems in our country. :2cents:

Simple solution: Wanna solve illegal immagration- get rid of the welfare system. This is not to say illegal immigrants are the problem( they are not... they are simply taking advantage of a situation that we have created by feeding and clothing the lazy Americans that refuse to work) it's the lazy Americans that are the problem. If we cut the welfare programs- the lazy Americans would be forced to get off their a$$ and take those jobs that Americans supposedly don't want... hence no job market for illegals. Now all Americans are working- our tax money is not wasted (as much)... and our borders are secure cause there is less draw/opportunity for outsiders. WIN WIN situation. Getting rid of welfare would solve numerous problems in our country. :2cents: it would create problems too. The problems with lazy americans is true. But the welfare system does more than support the lazy. It helps families that cant afford to feed/clothe/pay rent because they were to lazy to pay attention in school and now have to work at Walmart/McD's etc and not make ****. It also helps with our retired seniors because the SSI system sux as well. What you said isnt all wrong. Just killing welfare isnt gonna fix it. Cracking down on the greed businesses that hire illegals is one place to start. Town like mine where the Mayor go and invites immigrant to move here n seek work so they can have more $$$ in thier pockets. ITS GREED thats all it is. America forgot how to look out for Americans! God Bless our soldiers n the ppl they dont support em can kiss my @ss.

I'm actually pretty sorry I read this thread. It really lowered my estimation of some of the people on this forum. If you honestly believe illegal immigrants are treated better than Americans - in health care or anywhere else, you really haven't been around that population at all. I am temporarily working at a nonprofit that runs a number of programs designed specifically to help with people who are discriminated against, threatened, harassed and isolated every day of their lives - and yet this uncertainty is still better than the poverty, violence and destitution they face in their own countries. For a country that was supposedly founded by immigrants (and my grandmother's family of Irish immigrants falls into that working class) - we've gotten awfully xenophobic and racist. Is it just because the face of the immigrant population is changing? I can also attest to the fact that while this particular isolated incident might allow illegals to have their children free of charge, nearly all of the families I've worked with have no health insurance and live in fear of their children needing medical attention. Can you imagine worrying that your son's broken arm may cause your deportation? Not to go on a rant here, but there is a bigger picture.

'love your neighbor as yourself.'—Matthew 19:19

'love your neighbor as yourself.'—Matthew 19:19 It's such a simple thing, but without being cheesy, it's how to change the world. I like this one: "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Gandhi

It's such a simple thing, but without being cheesy, it's how to change the world. I like this one: "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Gandhi They go hand n hand :dthumb: :lol:

I say if an illegal immigrant gives birth to a child in the US it SHOULD NOT be considered a US citizen. And if an illegal shows up at the hospital yes, they should get treatment but why this is going on the hospitals should be required to call INS. Technically by not calling law enforcement officers wouldn't the hospital be aiding and abetting since they have knowledge the patient is an illegal? And I am a little confused how hospitals get around the "Federal Immigration and Nationality Act Section 8 USC 1324".

:tt: :tt: ummm thats almost a racist comment:nonod: I thought TWF Members were bigger than that we have legal Immigrants we didn't say no Mexicans I think the point being made is we need to fix a broke system and focus more on hard working Americans who are getting shafted and can't have the same privileges as illegals. Also I want to point out the same thing is going on with our American born prisoners not saying they don't deserve the right to be treated but i saw a news story the other week where we as tax payers were paying a lottttttt of money to keep a cop killer and several other bad guys alive I think they quoted like one of the guys hospital bed cost like 3 or $4000 a month to rent and he was expected to live for 15 to 20 more years you do the math nway let me not rant on I got off my point anyway Keep it clean or:lock: :lock: We have all different types of races on this site that is one thing about riders it brings everyone together Almost racist? What is wrong with you man? People like you are why this is happening. You people are so touchy about anything that has to do with race. Being racist is calling a Mexican a slur like "wetback" or "spic". Simply pointing out that Mexican immigrants make up for 99% of the illegal immigration problems is NOT racist. Also, "Mexican" is pointing out nationality "Hispanic" is pointing out race... so please, stop being so liberal.

I say if an illegal immigrant gives birth to a child in the US it SHOULD NOT be considered a US citizen. And if an illegal shows up at the hospital yes, they should get treatment but why this is going on the hospitals should be required to call INS. Technically by not calling law enforcement officers wouldn't the hospital be aiding and abetting since they have knowledge the patient is an illegal? And I am a little confused how hospitals get around the "Federal Immigration and Nationality Act Section 8 USC 1324". some hospitals are like churches, they give sanctuary... -a|ex

Everytime one of these threads come up, it always end up the same way.....with the big :lock:

We Need To Be Like China And Build A Great Wall Around The Country.......look At China...no Mexicans... :baha: As tongue-in-cheek this OBVIOUSLY is... there is some truth to it... Think about it... NOBODY wants to get into China, but their borders are secured... :tt: :tt: ummm thats almost a racist comment:nonod: I thought TWF Members were bigger than that we have legal Immigrants we didn't say no Mexicans I think the point being made is we need to fix a broke system and focus more on hard working Americans who are getting shafted and can't have the same privileges as illegals. Also I want to point out the same thing is going on with our American born prisoners not saying they don't deserve the right to be treated but i saw a news story the other week where we as tax payers were paying a lottttttt of money to keep a cop killer and several other bad guys alive I think they quoted like one of the guys hospital bed cost like 3 or $4000 a month to rent and he was expected to live for 15 to 20 more years you do the math nway let me not rant on I got off my point anyway Keep it clean or:lock: :lock: We have all different types of races on this site that is one thing about riders it brings everyone together PALEASE!!! Racist comment? It was a freakin' joke... That's like being a racist for describing someone as a white guy... The simple truth of it is that the immigration problem isn't that Canadians are flooding our country... It's our neighbor to the south. As far as the prisoners, I agree 100%. I think the solution is to make all the non-violent criminals do these jobs that the illegals are doing... The companies who employ this labor will pay the government similar wages that they pay the illegals... Eliminating some of the burdon on the taxpayers for housing the prisoners and drying up a lot of the job market for the illegals.:2cents: Simple solution: Wanna solve illegal immagration- get rid of the welfare system. This is not to say illegal immigrants are the problem( they are not... they are simply taking advantage of a situation that we have created by feeding and clothing the lazy Americans that refuse to work) it's the lazy Americans that are the problem. If we cut the welfare programs- the lazy Americans would be forced to get off their a$$ and take those jobs that Americans supposedly don't want... hence no job market for illegals. Now all Americans are working- our tax money is not wasted (as much)... and our borders are secure cause there is less draw/opportunity for outsiders. WIN WIN situation. Getting rid of welfare would solve numerous problems in our country. :2cents: On the surface this seems like a good idea. Yeah the welfare system coddles the lazy, but it also defends the weak. Why they may be weak is up for debate, but leaving these folks to fend for themselves is just asking for spikes in crime rates. it would create problems too. The problems with lazy americans is true. But the welfare system does more than support the lazy. It helps families that cant afford to feed/clothe/pay rent because they were to lazy to pay attention in school and now have to work at Walmart/McD's etc and not make ****. It also helps with our retired seniors because the SSI system sux as well. What you said isnt all wrong. Just killing welfare isnt gonna fix it. Cracking down on the greed businesses that hire illegals is one place to start. Town like mine where the Mayor go and invites immigrant to move here n seek work so they can have more $$$ in thier pockets. ITS GREED thats all it is. America forgot how to look out for Americans! God Bless our soldiers n the ppl they dont support em can kiss my @ss. Remember that it's not just about people who were too lazy to pay attention in school... Some were dealt really terrible hands and were just not strong enough to persevere. Abolishing welfare would just encourage these people to become criminals. Also, cracking down on the businesses would just increase prices for you, me, and everyone else... How about strawberries, $18.99/lb? I'm actually pretty sorry I read this thread. It really lowered my estimation of some of the people on this forum. If you honestly believe illegal immigrants are treated better than Americans - in health care or anywhere else, you really haven't been around that population at all. I am temporarily working at a nonprofit that runs a number of programs designed specifically to help with people who are discriminated against, threatened, harassed and isolated every day of their lives - and yet this uncertainty is still better than the poverty, violence and destitution they face in their own countries. For a country that was supposedly founded by immigrants (and my grandmother's family of Irish immigrants falls into that working class) - we've gotten awfully xenophobic and racist. Is it just because the face of the immigrant population is changing? I can also attest to the fact that while this particular isolated incident might allow illegals to have their children free of charge, nearly all of the families I've worked with have no health insurance and live in fear of their children needing medical attention. Can you imagine worrying that your son's broken arm may cause your deportation? Not to go on a rant here, but there is a bigger picture. I don't think they are treated better per say, but they are getting FREE HEALTHCARE. Healthcare that WE are paying for. Is that fair? Further, did you read the part in that article about the 140 American citizens being sued by the hospital? So it's ok to give free healthcare to criminals (remember folks they are called 'illegal' immigrants for a reason)... Ahem... Free healthcare to criminals, but we are going to sue taxpaying citizens because they received healthcare out of their home county. I love it when someone brings up the 'this country was founded by immigrants' arguement... Yeah, you are right, this country was founded by immigrants OVER 200 YEARS AGO!!! Remember... back when slavery was totally cool... I mean, EVERYBODY was doing it! Sheesh... This country is still all about immigrants, you just have to do it the right way... and WTF is wrong with that? What is wrong with knowing who is coming into this country? Remember kids, those passenger carrying missles that changed our country on 9/11 were piloted by people who just meandered across our borders without any problem. And... 'particular isolated incident'.... :lol: This is a trend... a three month period... With this line of thinking, WWII was a particular isolated incident as well... Also, I am unmoved by the threat of deportation for taking your kid in for his broken arm... Fluck that... Why is it ok for these people to break the law? Why should we pardon these people? That doesn't make sense... 'love your neighbor as yourself.'—Matthew 19:19 Too bad your neighbor will fluck you over every time... But I guess you should just "turn the other cheek." :wbs: It's such a simple thing, but without being cheesy, it's how to change the world. I like this one: "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Gandhi You forgot the 2nd part... "while getting flucked in the butt... dry." I say if an illegal immigrant gives birth to a child in the US it SHOULD NOT be considered a US citizen. And if an illegal shows up at the hospital yes, they should get treatment but why this is going on the hospitals should be required to call INS. Technically by not calling law enforcement officers wouldn't the hospital be aiding and abetting since they have knowledge the patient is an illegal? And I am a little confused how hospitals get around the "Federal Immigration and Nationality Act Section 8 USC 1324". Because it's different. Everyone hates criminals, unless of course they are immigrants. At the bar last night we actually got into a fairly deep conversation about this very subject. Bottom line... You cannot blame the illegals... We are the land of opportunity and we don't enforce our own laws... What is the motivation for these people to come here legally? There is none... If we are going to not enforce our own laws... and provide amnesty via guest worker programs and just flat out citizenship... why not? It just really pisses me off that our borders are so pathetically managed that terrorists can come into this country undetected... It pisses me off that someone calls me a racist because I want to deport illegals... It pisses me off that people will defend these criminals.... And more than anything, it pisses me off that we all have to foot the bill for these people, meanwhile our own citizens get sued for not paying their bill... It's backasswards... Makes me want to hurt people...

OSP, your getting in some serious multiple post today!

so how many bikers here feel that legalizing the illegals will level the playing field? no more free services once they become legal. they get a number like everyone else and will become taxpayers. many illegals want to become legal. only the criminal elements wants to stay illegal (this also holds true for the legal criminal elements). was there a previous poll that i missed on this one? -a|ex

OSP, your getting in some serious multiple post today! There were actually a couple more that I wanted to respond to, but was too lazy.. :lol: so how many bikers here feel that legalizing the illegals will level the playing field? no more free services once they become legal. they get a number like everyone else and will become taxpayers. many illegals want to become legal. only the criminal elements wants to stay illegal (this also holds true for the legal criminal elements). was there a previous poll that i missed on this one? -a|ex That just encourages the behavior that I am looking to change... Reward people for breaking the law... It was tried in the 80's and the border jumpers increased... Not to mention then they would have to be paid minimum wage so the cost of living would increase in the US...

That just encourages the behavior that I am looking to change... Reward people for breaking the law... It was tried in the 80's and the border jumpers increased... Not to mention then they would have to be paid minimum wage so the cost of living would increase in the US... they are already crossing the borders and already being paid minimum wage. but at least they will be accountable and taxed accordingly. there are 2 problems, one: how to stop border crossers two: what to do with the onces already here. the above solution deals with number two. my solution with number one, declare all border crossing as terrorist attacks. my recommended solution would be to annex mexico. reward ppl for breaking the law... this is common practice in politics. -a|ex

Not to mention then they would have to be paid minimum wage so the cost of living would increase in the US... Alas, it's all about the money and ain't a damn thing funny. Grandmaster Flash had it right.

they are already crossing the borders and already being paid minimum wage. but at least they will be accountable and taxed accordingly. there are 2 problems, one: how to stop border crossers two: what to do with the onces already here. the above solution deals with number two. my solution with number one, declare all border crossing as terrorist attacks. my recommended solution would be to annex mexico. reward ppl for breaking the law... this is common practice in politics. -a|ex First off, they are not being paid minimum wage... Second, I don't see how rewarding their illegal act helps to hold them accountable... I like the illegal border crossing as a terrorist act... The thing about it though, is it won't do any good... It's already illegal to do it... making it more illegal isn't going to do a damn thing... I say we build a gigantic fence that's wired directly into the power grid... Fry 'em. Alas, it's all about the money and ain't a damn thing funny. Grandmaster Flash had it right. I may be reading this wrong, but I think that may be a jab at greed... Either way... Paying these people minimum wage would increase the cost of living in the US, thereby hurting the lower economic classes the most... The question is... Can the tax revenues generated by the illegal's wages cover the increased cost of existing welfare recipients AND the many people who will be forced into the welfare system due to the increased cost of living? Let's do some math... I've read that the estimate is that there are 9+ million illegals living in this country... Federal minimum wage is about to go up to $7/hr... Tax rates vary on many factors, but my guess is on average that 15% of that wage would go to taxes... Figure a 40-hour work week, that's 2,080 hours per year... 9,000,000 x $7 x 0.15 x 2,080 = $19,656,000,000 in additional tax revenue. Now let's say that the increase in cost from the additional wages these folks will be paid... which is going to surely be passed along to the consumer... causes the cost of living to increase by 2% (which I feel is a VERY conservative estimate). According to the first source I found while Googling (here) (http://www.heritage.org/Research/Welfare/Test030701b.cfm) in 2000, the total welfare spending was 434,300,000,000... I think we can all agree with the higher cost of living now, this number is probably larger... Also, it can be assumed that the increase in welfare spending would directly correlate with the increase in cost of living... So... 434,300,000,000 x 0.02 = $8,686,000,000 in additional welfare costs... So, if all of the illegals started working and paying taxes... at minimum wage, it appears as though they would pay for the associated increase in cost of living... However... not all of them will be productive... Inevitably the increase in cost of living will force more people onto welfare... The problem gets exponentially more difficult from there...

First off, they are not being paid minimum wage... Second, I don't see how rewarding their illegal act helps to hold them accountable... I like the illegal border crossing as a terrorist act... The thing about it though, is it won't do any good... It's already illegal to do it... making it more illegal isn't going to do a damn thing... I say we build a gigantic fence that's wired directly into the power grid... Fry 'em. I may be reading this wrong, but I think that may be a jab at greed... Either way... Paying these people minimum wage would increase the cost of living in the US, thereby hurting the lower economic classes the most... The question is... Can the tax revenues generated by the illegal's wages cover the increased cost of existing welfare recipients AND the many people who will be forced into the welfare system due to the increased cost of living? Let's do some math... I've read that the estimate is that there are 9+ million illegals living in this country... Federal minimum wage is about to go up to $7/hr... Tax rates vary on many factors, but my guess is on average that 15% of that wage would go to taxes... Figure a 40-hour work week, that's 2,080 hours per year... 9,000,000 x $7 x 0.15 x 2,080 = $19,656,000,000 in additional tax revenue. Now let's say that the increase in cost from the additional wages these folks will be paid... which is going to surely be passed along to the consumer... causes the cost of living to increase by 2% (which I feel is a VERY conservative estimate). According to the first source I found while Googling (here) (http://www.heritage.org/Research/Welfare/Test030701b.cfm) in 2000, the total welfare spending was 434,300,000,000... I think we can all agree with the higher cost of living now, this number is probably larger... Also, it can be assumed that the increase in welfare spending would directly correlate with the increase in cost of living... So... 434,300,000,000 x 0.02 = $8,686,000,000 in additional welfare costs... So, if all of the illegals started working and paying taxes... at minimum wage, it appears as though they would pay for the associated increase in cost of living... However... not all of them will be productive... Inevitably the increase in cost of living will force more people onto welfare... The problem gets exponentially more difficult from there... And once again. :D Alas, it's all about the money and ain't a damn thing funny. Grandmaster Flash had it right.

First off, they are not being paid minimum wage... Second, I don't see how rewarding their illegal act helps to hold them accountable... i don't know their payscale, only their employers know it well. second, there is this thing called amnesty. it is a usefull tool. I like the illegal border crossing as a terrorist act... The thing about it though, is it won't do any good... It's already illegal to do it... making it more illegal isn't going to do a damn thing... classifying it under terrorism allows the feds to waive normal due process of law (denying them of civil/human rights). I say we build a gigantic fence that's wired directly into the power grid... Fry 'em. it didn't work for the communist, so i doubt it will work here. Paying these people minimum wage would increase the cost of living in the US, thereby hurting the lower economic classes the most... .. babble, babble..snip So, if all of the illegals started working and paying taxes... at minimum wage, it appears as though they would pay for the associated increase in cost of living... too many variables that affects cost of living. the local government has more to do with it than the federal government. However... not all of them will be productive... Inevitably the increase in cost of living will force more people onto welfare... The problem gets exponentially more difficult from there... being born into welfare will force that generation into welfare... also, corporate outsourcing and mass lay offs that are not related to illegals will force ppl into welfare. again, too many variables involved and illegals may not make a significant impact. -a|ex

classifying it under terrorism allows the feds to waive normal due process of law (denying them of civil/human rights). -a|ex Yeah, I know that... My point was... If we aren't enforcing the current laws, what good are new ones?

Yeah, I know that... My point was... If we aren't enforcing the current laws, what good are new ones? too many problems to fix... i believe GA is the first state to make it's own laws punishing local businesses for employing illegals. i would imagine that businesses are getting away with it because they aren't getting caught? someone needs to fund a task force to declare war on illegals and spend a few millions to investigate farmers, cleaning companies, and building contractors. where would the funding come from? -a|ex

too many problems to fix... i believe GA is the first state to make it's own laws punishing local businesses for employing illegals. i would imagine that businesses are getting away with it because they aren't getting caught? someone needs to fund a task force to declare war on illegals and spend a few millions to investigate farmers, cleaning companies, and building contractors. where would the funding come from? -a|ex here in my town anyhow its carpet mills, and they produce the majority of the carpet the world uses here, Beaulieu of America has been caught and fined numerous tymes. The fines dont even phase what they make in profit. Its not hard to figure out the illegals, they most likely dont understand any english, AT ALL. Refuse to learn english n stay in their lil parts of town except when working. Dunno about yall but it makes me irrate my kids have to learn spanish in school so they can communicate with immigrates. They move here, do like all the immigrates for the last 200 years has done... LEARN ENGLISH!!!

I was going to make all kinds of comments.. but it won't help... :leaving:

I was going to make all kinds of comments.. but it won't help... :leaving: I got one... Beer... It's liquid bread, it's good for you.

I was going to make all kinds of comments.. but it won't help... :leaving: :nonod: :nonod: :nonod: :nonod: So if I posted up "do like east Carolina and build a wall that = No blue people" thats cool I'm pretty sure I would have had a million replies telling me to go to helllll whatever this twf is getting worse and worse not really too much bout bikes anymore just crazy kids being too political and you call me liberal and too touchy i'm down for whatever i was raised in the south and i'm a soldier man i have really tough skin im just saying be respectful of all races on this site yall have not really been getting into bikes anymore thats why yall on so much not enough riding just sitting in front of this PC get a life dudes

here is my point of view on this topic. I don't fault anyone from wanting to better their families and themselves. I just don't think it is fair for the legal Americans ( immigrants ) to put up with this. As many people may or may not know a huge majority of us are immigrants. There is a right way and a wrong way to become a US citizin. If you are a "Illegal Immigrant" then why should you have rights hence the word "ILLEGAL". And tax laws should be the same for everyone. Claim 15 dependants and not need ss#'s just have to say they live in a different country and you send them money. That is bullcrap. I am not a racist and I like everyone I think everyone should be equally treated the same. Like I said there is a right way and I am all for it and there is a wrong way and that is what pisses me off. Personally I think they need to make Mexico a part of the US and that would solve alot of problems. I am not saying Mexico is where all the illegals are coming from but it is alot. This is my opinion and my right as an American to be able to express it. Sorry if I offend anyone but that's my :2cents:

Oh yeah one more thing. The national language is ENGLISH and think everyone should speak it. I wouldn't move somewhere and not know,learn,or want to learn their language. I hate going to McDonalds or any fast food place and hear "no abla ingles":cursin: We let this happen and I think it's too late to stop it. The only way to stop it is to make a manditory natonial law to only hire English speaking Americans ( Legal Immigrants ) with a hefty hefty not worth it fine for those who do not corrispond.

here is my point of view on this topic. I don't fault anyone from wanting to better their families and themselves. I just don't think it is fair for the legal Americans ( immigrants ) to put up with this. As many people may or may not know a huge majority of us are immigrants. There is a right way and a wrong way to become a US citizin. If you are a "Illegal Immigrant" then why should you have rights hence the word "ILLEGAL". And tax laws should be the same for everyone. Claim 15 dependants and not need ss#'s just have to say they live in a different country and you send them money. That is bullcrap. I am not a racist and I like everyone I think everyone should be equally treated the same. Like I said there is a right way and I am all for it and there is a wrong way and that is what pisses me off. Personally I think they need to make Mexico a part of the US and that would solve alot of problems. I am not saying Mexico is where all the illegals are coming from but it is alot. This is my opinion and my right as an American to be able to express it. Sorry if I offend anyone but that's my :2cents: :iagree: My thoughts exactly, except for the annex. Also, its not being racist to mention Latin Americans in this discussion. According to statistics, 90% of the illegals in the US are Latin Americans of which 70% are Mexican.

My plan is to annex Mexico and Panama-Put Crocodiles in the canal and cut off immigration from there. I've already got my retirement home in Playa de Carma picked out. Boy, wouldn't that piss off all the old people in Florida?:dthumb:

Newt Gringrich said it best..... UPS and FEDEX track seven million packages a day, and the U.S. has @ 20 million illegal aliens, and the gov't can't track any of them.....so send a fedex package to 7 million illegal aliens, track the package and there ya go. Seven million illegal aliens in custody. :lol:

:nonod: :nonod: :nonod: :nonod: So if I posted up "do like east Carolina and build a wall that = No blue people" thats cool I'm pretty sure I would have had a million replies telling me to go to helllll whatever this twf is getting worse and worse not really too much bout bikes anymore just crazy kids being too political and you call me liberal and too touchy i'm down for whatever i was raised in the south and i'm a soldier man i have really tough skin im just saying be respectful of all races on this site yall have not really been getting into bikes anymore thats why yall on so much not enough riding just sitting in front of this PC get a life dudes I hope you're not directing anything towards me. I'm trying to stay out of the larger debate. Oh yeah one more thing. The national language is ENGLISH and think everyone should speak it. I wouldn't move somewhere and not know,learn,or want to learn their language. But this :iagree: 200% with because its not racial. Its the way it should be. Its the way it is everywhere else in the world.

I hate everybody equally. :2cents: :lock:

I hate everybody equally. :2cents: :lock: :withstupi

:lock: :lock: :lock: :lock: :lock: :lock: :lock: :mix: :mix: :mix: :mix: :mix: :mix: :mix: :mix: :mix: :mix: :mix: :mix: :lock: :lock: :lock: :lock: :lock: :lock: :lock: :lock: :lock: :lock: :lock:

it would create problems too. The problems with lazy americans is true. But the welfare system does more than support the lazy. It helps families that cant afford to feed/clothe/pay rent because they were to lazy to pay attention in school and now have to work at Walmart/McD's etc and not make ****. It also helps with our retired seniors because the SSI system sux as well. What you said isnt all wrong. Just killing welfare isnt gonna fix it. Cracking down on the greed businesses that hire illegals is one place to start. Town like mine where the Mayor go and invites immigrant to move here n seek work so they can have more $$$ in thier pockets. ITS GREED thats all it is. America forgot how to look out for Americans! God Bless our soldiers n the ppl they dont support em can kiss my @ss. round here people working at Mcd's are making just as much as others working at Target, and other stores. More than people in the mall. MCD's ain't such a bad job around here. Just the stereotype that you are "not cool" if you do

Disclaimer: Only read the OP. I now have two close relatives who have been hit by an illegal alien who was then jailed for 24 hrs, released, and then disappeared with their vehicle, leaving the victims and their insurers with the bills.

We Need To Be Like China And Build A Great Wall Around The Country.......look At China...no Mexicans... This is funny to me

sorry but i need to keep it real, your comments mean sh%$t. the reason why is because your on a bike forum. if you really want to do somthing about immigrants run for president or some crap like that. Life is to short to care about somthing you cant change. im sure you all have a bike so ride it.:mc2: suzuki's rule

WHOA... calm down folks...

sorry but i need to keep it real, your comments mean sh%$t. the reason why is because your on a bike forum. if you really want to do somthing about immigrants run for president or some crap like that. Life is to short to care about somthing you cant change. im sure you all have a bike so ride it.:mc2: suzuki's rule Thats why they call this general off topic discussion " anything goes " You are right we do need to go to the government with this. Oh and there is a thunderstorm outside so riding isn't really an option! Ride green!

sorry but i need to keep it real, your comments mean sh%$t. the reason why is because your on a bike forum. if you really want to do somthing about immigrants run for president or some crap like that. Life is to short to care about somthing you cant change. im sure you all have a bike so ride it.:mc2: suzuki's rule i wanted to run for president, but i'm not U.S. born... i hope arnold can change all that.. -a|ex

i wanted to run for president, but i'm not U.S. born... i hope arnold can change all that.. -a|ex Haha i really dont think the rest of the country would vote for him

Haha i really dont think the rest of the country would vote for him err, it wouldn't be the first time the country elected a movie star as president.... vote for the terminator! -a|ex

err, it wouldn't be the first time the country elected a movie star as president.... vote for the terminator! -a|ex Ole Ron want exactly an action movie superstar. There is no way someone who was conan the barbarian at on time needs to be president

Ole Ron want exactly an action movie superstar. There is no way someone who was conan the barbarian at on time needs to be president http://www.arnoldexposed.com/ :flush:

http://www.arnoldexposed.com/ :flush: In one case, whilst on the set of Terminator 2 he approached a female crew member out of the blue, put his hands into her blouse and pulled her breasts out of her bra. An observer said: "I couldn't believe what I was seeing. This woman's nipples were exposed, and here's Arnold and a few of his clones laughing." The woman in question broke into tears and fled to a nearby trailer. i would pay money to see that... he's got my vote! -a|ex

Haha i really dont think the rest of the country would vote for him Only Californians are insane enough to do that... Ole Ron want exactly an action movie superstar. There is no way someone who was conan the barbarian at on time needs to be president "Sir, here's your presidential loin cloth."

sorry but i need to keep it real, your comments mean sh%$t. the reason why is because your on a bike forum. if you really want to do somthing about immigrants run for president or some crap like that. Life is to short to care about somthing you cant change. im sure you all have a bike so ride it.:mc2: suzuki's rule The "some crap like that" would be as simple as making it clear what you expect of your legislators. There is so much apathy out there its no wonder the zealots run amok in the halls of Congress and state legislatures. They're the only ones talking. When annoyed by something stupid, get it off your chest by writing those who are responsible for its oversight. Email's free and easy to write, just try to do it as cohesively and coherently as possible. Here's a nice starter link. (http://www.congress.org/congressorg/directory/congdir.tt) :2cents:

Leave it to Connecticut New Haven to begin offering IDs to illegal immigrants Posted July 23, 2007 11:50 AM (New Haven-WTNH) _ Starting tomorrow New Haven will be issuing ID Cards to illegal immigrants in the city. The Elm City Municipal ID cards will let them open bank accounts, apply for library cards, and give them access to other city services. Critics say this will lead to a flood of illegal immigrants in New Haven. However, the ID cards are available to all city residents, not just illegal immigrants. New Haven officials approved the controversial program last month, and it will be privately funded for the first year.

Several counties in Maryland have already started to pick up Illegals and transporting them out. They only check the ones they stop for traffic infractions and arrests. They will check status for state or county services soon. Maryland is doing something right for once!!

My issue with the ID cards is the fact that they are making it ok for the illegals to be here illegally LOL

So if there are to many why not do like they do with deer to keep population down. man i really am mean.:yikes: :leaving:

So if there are to many why not do like they do with deer to keep population down. man i really am mean.:yikes: :leaving: Where I work-they give the deer birth control.

I hope you're not directing anything towards me. I'm trying to stay out of the larger debate. But this :iagree: 200% with because its not racial. Its the way it should be. Its the way it is everywhere else in the world. not towards u and yeah i know im like two years late but nway:twfrox: