United we stand...

Divided we fall... What does that mean? Is it some reference to battle?... patriotism?... politics? Yes. I've got to thinking a lot lately about how backasswards our country is, especially when it comes to the polarization of our nation... People don't have any idea what the hell is going on because they are blinded by partisan idealogy... In a politics thread on another board, a guy posted the following couple rants... I find dead on accurate and especially troublesome... Think of this the next time you say, "I'll never vote for a DemoRepublicratcan"... I've included the catalyst posts for cohesiveness purposes... Long read, but DAMN well worth it... The next president's got their work cut out for them. i just hope they get us out of this recession. I"m tired of paying $3+ for a gallon of gas. get us out short term or get us out long term? First of all, the head of the federal reserve is a lifetime appointment...."Uncle Ben" Bernanke is your man now....after the retirement of Greenspan. Presidents can have some effect....like lowering government spending.....working on trade deficits......etc. Clinton had an effect.....remember the "only balanced budget in history" well it was a bit of a misnomer to begin with.....but to even get close he allowed the NATIONAL OIL RESERVE TO BE SOLD (which has added much volitility to the traded price of oil) Remember the "greatest economic time of our lives" in the late 90's early 2000's? The "internet boom"? Yeah that was a fake bubble where a lot of jackass lazy investors thought they could go from a normal 8-10% "good return" a year to a multi thousand percent return with no ramifications....stocks were no longer evaluated on performance metrics of the actual companies....it became speculative....and a lot of people were left without a chair when PREDICTABLY the music stopped To avoid the fallout garaunteed to come from all these lost fortunes, greenspan and the fed cut interest rates to rediculous levels....when a bank writes you a loan, they only have to have 10% of the money they are loaning you...the government fronts them the rest.....the theory being that people would go buckwild borrowing money, which they would then blow on useless crap, and american companies could hire more employees who could then borrow and spend more money....the same moronic "looking for an easy win" investors went buck wild on "rental properties".....my house went from $120K to $360K in 3 years.....in the end all that REALLY happened was hyper-inflation....conveniently the federal reserve does not include such items as housing and energy within their calculation of "inflation"....even though they have the largest effect on cost of living. They also allow "substitution" of items in categories such as food. For example if last years stats included filet minogn in the beef category, they can substitute grade D ground cow ass as "equivelently the same thing"....gov.org is claiming 3% or less inflation....I'm telling you REAL inflation is more like 100% over the last couple years.....that's third world country type inflation Additionally, numerous LARGE banks have been very close to insolvency after all these yahoos they approved for loans proved they are better shoppers than bill payers as usual...the fed has been silently bailing them out ina number of ways and publicly in some less scary ways.... You see, since banks only hold that 10% in reserves....if all their loans go tits up they can potentially not have the money to cover all the DEPOSITS made by unsuspecting individuals....the FDIC insures this, to a limited amount.... Gov.org has also been quietly allowing non-government loans to be shifted over to the likes of fannie mae and converted to government backed loans...so that when they go tits up gov.org will cover the loss The worst so far is they have been PRINTING MONEY....you see the problem is, even when the rates get near zero now from the gov to the banks....the banks are seeing the lowest deposits in history so they don't have enough of the 10% to do any new business....gov.org has been making pre-weekend printing runs to insure enough liquidity in the market to avoid a weekend COMPLETE CRASH.... Most americans for the first time in history have NEGATIVE SAVINGS Health care is not going to get less expensive from some douchebag forcing me to pay for 20 other people to get insurance The government is NOT efficient in anything they do.... And it's becomming more and more alarming to those of us who actually don't work for the government or recieve any entitlements....the third of us left.... On top of all of this, due to our mass inflation, we are at a serious disadvantage IMPORTING all the foreign crap that we have to buy for our day to day lives.... You know all that chinese crap at wallyworld.... And we aren't in a position to provide an american made alternative...because upidy "I'm owed" communists here think they deserve a salary sufficient to cover chrome bling blings on an escalade and a case of hennesey a month just for breathing and pulling a lever in a factory... labor laws centering around unions have ****ED free market capitalism here.....GM and FORD? crippled due to the excessive costs of people who dont even work there anymore.....all thanks to unions....since when is pulling a lever worth a full cost of $100 an hour to a major corporation? ALL of the three candidates we now face believe the solution is WEALTH REDISTRIBUTION.....ergo steal from the guy who has a little money and give it to the guy who doesnt (typically because his priorities in life and spending habits are retarded)...they still intend to "reward" their supporters....make some money for themselves and SPEND MORE..... all this adds up to more taxes and more debt for the government and individuals foreign nations, primarily china are buying our debtandwill own us if things keep goingthis way excessive government regulation and taxation are killing business....combined with a weak currency and shakey economy built on intentional "bubbles" meant to "fake" the economy this is going to drive more and more business and wealthy people OFFSHORE until all thats left is a bunch of entitlement babies and no one to support them.... When you pay $3 for gas, a huge proportion of that gallon of gas is federal, state, local tax, expenses due to EPA regulations, limitations in refinment due to epa and government regulations so tight NO ONE can build a new refinery only used their old outdated grandfathered plants.... So the more people cry for the government to intervene in crap the worse it gets for all of us.....the best we could hope for is a government they stays the hell out of daily life and business except in extreme circumstances... kyoto is another great GLOBAL scam job....it has created a whole business for "carbon offsets" that many UN officials are using as a money making racket..... Almost any kind of change would be better!!!!!!!! I cannot imagine any Republican seriously defending this failure of a President. Not to mention Cheney, Rumsfeld the whole troop. wrong answer.... be suspicious of appeals to emotion in your life as opposed to appeal to logic....usually rife with shrill sound bites.....attrocities....overstated points...etc. That's the sound of people trying to turn you into a sheep It's no different when it's bush telling ya we're all gonna die if we dont go to iraq and such STUPID statements as "over here or over there"....or when it's lefties screaming "it's all an evil conspiracy where they blew up the tradecenter with demolision explosives it's all the work of the eeeeeviiil booooosh" Bush won't be in office...his term limit is up.....and sadly all options are ACTUALLY WORSE....(and I'm not a big fan of dubya in terms of iraq and government spending at all) Everyone has to stop being so damn emotional....because it drives people to extremes.... Did you know anger lowers to IQ temporarily? people will always tend to lean to wanting power over someone else. goverment will never be "for the people". anyone who thinks of themselves republican, democrat, indepentent, leftist, rightist, up-ist, down-ist, wake the **** up and smell the maple nut crunch in the coffee, you are the problem. we need more humanist. everyone. the problem is that the humanist have such a massive problem to have to deal with this whole mess.. simply what to do and where do we start. i am not a smart person, i coun't tell ya how bad my spelling is, but i more and more think that because of all the gvnt wanting to control everything, which is more sounding like it's instructions that come from businessmen who are only intrested in money and power and really don't care about when a people die of illness that they have cures for, but can't make money off of the vaccine if there is no disease. just another random babble form me actually this election is being waged on the premisce of STEAL money from business and give it to lazy asses (just not my buddies businesses who I'll build a loop hole in for) and people wonder why outsourcing happens there's nothing evil about wanting to have superior wealth.... there's quite a bit evil about wanting to steal from the guy who inovated, worked his ass off, is exceptionally qualified so you cna get the chrome spinners you were somehow born deserving.... the general attitude of employees/entitleists in this nation is driving it towards two classes (with the caveat that the supporting class is going to up and leave eventually when the bull**** gets too thick) Discuss.

I recognize that thread like this usually don't last very long around here... I would VERY much appreciate it if people could keep their comments civilized and as non-heated as possible... We all disagree on a lot of things, but let's act like adults... The original post is very informative... read it with an open mind.

hah, a glimmer of light shone on me today, as i went down to see Obama in my local civic theatre... the line strectched around 3 city blocks (this line was 5-7 people wide, coering the whole downtown sidewalk) and swooped back and landed at the beggining again. I was proud to see so many people take an investment in politics, even if 99% of them were mindless followers of somebody they know 0 about. I was there just to go. I am not an oboma follower.

All I can say is, I'm scared. Scared of what the hell this country is coming to... I'm not one to buy a bunch of flashy crap that I don't really need (but I do want another bike). I wonder how long before what little I have gets so small that I don't have anything due to inflation. I currently work in the world of finance, and I'm scared. This market has become more about emotion and hype than about the ability of a company. In some ways, the technology age is wonderful. In other ways, it's become a major problem. All the copy cats in the world that hear about a school shooting and decide they need to do the same. I prefer to not even watch the news because it's jsut a bunch of negative crap. I don't give a rat's ass about politics because it's just a big game. Everybody lies just to get your vote. Do any of them ever really do anything for us? Not in my opinion. They all just make a big show and tell you how great they've been, but it seems that the deeper you look into things, the less truth there is to statements. It's almost impossible to know who, if anyone, you can believe, simply because of all the conflicting information out there. I wish us all luck in the future.

I'm scared too. I personally believe that this country does not have much longer to exist as we know it. I really don't have too many facts to back up my standpoint, but it's a gut feeling. Reading things like this just reaffirms my belief. I think we are too far gone and even if something drastic were done, all of the entitlists out there (that make up most of the population now) would be in outrage over it, even if it could save us. Yea, I'm scared too.

:withstupi Scared?Hell ya.Not only has the government gone to hell but the average man will break into tears on national TV.Where have all the MEN gone? The media and government have failed us.Or maybe we failed ourselves. I served our country,got out 6/06 US Army Infantry 11b 3rd ID. And ill tell ya the truest quote one that lived by in the military. "Love youre country,Fear youre government".

All I can say is, I'm scared. Scared of what the hell this country is coming to... Yea, I'm scared too. /rant on +1. I'm scared chitless. I agree with what the "big long" post said..... There's a lot of things wrong with this country and unfortunately I feel it's almost, or just past the point of "too late." I see a crash coming... a big flucking one that's gonna have everyone bending over like a scene from Deliverance. And I'm not blaming this on Rep, or Dem.... I blame it honestly on the American people who pushed the unions to become this way, who head the corporations that overstate/inflate their current finacial situations, take million dollar bonuses per year, and then send jobs overseas..... but they send jobs overseas because, someone DEMANDS to be paid $100/hr to push a button, pull a lever, count lug nuts, or say "Thank you for calling, How may I help you today?" Oh yeah... customer service is pretty much non exhistant because we don't have AI yet. /rant off

damn all this pessimism is making me want to reach down my throat and stop my own heart. We've got it better than any generation ever to walk the earth. we've got it so good that we have the liberty to discuss on a completely electronic level how bad we think we have it because we're intelligent enough to understand that with cooperation and likemindedness we could live harmoniously. Some would call that communism, some socialism, some utopia. Personally i say "**** it" to politics. i'm just waiting for the revolution.

I gotta say Orlando has it dead ****ing right on... Scared... yeah but honestly it's useless fear! with the amount of "what's in it for ME" people out there... nothing is gonna change! living in fear will cripple you... I was taught that a long time ago... so I go on about my way... trying to make sure I keep my self black... planning for the worst... while enjoying the present. Great Post BTW OSP

Wow! "Where have all the men gone?" "I'm scared" What a bunch of chickens*&ts. You guys break under pressure faster than a cheap toothpick. Bitching about $3/gallon gas? You guys really have nothing better to do, do you?

Wow! "Where have all the men gone?" "I'm scared" What a bunch of chickens*&ts. You guys break under pressure faster than a cheap toothpick. Bitching about $3/gallon gas? You guys really have nothing better to do, do you? nope... and apparently neither do you:dthumb:

nope... and apparently neither do you:dthumb: Posts: 8,287 Who doesn't have anything better to do?

Posts: 8,287 Who doesn't have anything better to do? look up... did I deny it? :lol: I'm just saying obviously you don't either... your reply just proves my point:dthumb:

Posts: 8,287 Who doesn't have anything better to do? look up... did I deny it? :lol: I'm just saying obviously you don't either... your reply just proves my point:dthumb: double bubble burn.

double bubble burn. :lol: what's with the noobs start'n crap with everyone?:lol:

Discuss. :bowdown: I'd stayed out of that thread over there, just because (as you said) they rarely stay civil (or open, for that matter), but he's (Orlando1098s) got some incredibly insightful points.

i don't understand a word of what was written above...politics are not my strong point. vote people, that's the only way our voices get heard.

i don't understand a word of what was written above...politics are not my strong point. vote people, that's the only way our voices get heard. I want someone decent to vote for. I want a public servant, not someone who's a professional politician out there to make money off being in the government. :idk:

I want someone decent to vote for. I want a public servant, not someone who's a professional politician out there to make money off being in the government. :idk: don't we all. write yourself in, sadly that may be your only hope. :nonod:

i don't understand a word of what was written above...politics are not my strong point. vote people, that's the only way our voices get heard. ...but don't just VOTE, be informed about who you're voting FOR. Just voting for someone because of the party they're in, or based on what slanted info you've been given in popular media is just as bad as not voting at all. Educate yourself (general yourself, not aiming this at you, itgirl) and learn about the candiates before voting.

Divided we fall... What does that mean? Is it some reference to battle?... patriotism?... politics? . Just a little off topic but I think one reason the "United we stand" has become such a battle cry is due to the first political cartoon ever published by Benjamin Franklin... http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/us.capitol/one.jpg Years ago it was believed that if you cut a snake up then put it back together it would heal and live. But if left apart too long it would die. If I remember correctly it was a reference to the debates Post Revolutionary War on wether to have a Confederacy or a Republic(DEMOCRACY WASN'T EVEN DISCUSSED!!!). Franklin supported a Republic which is what this Nation USE to be. Sadly America is lost. Plain and simple. And it will be a couple of centuries if not more before it is restored to what it was in the early 1800s. Our only hope is for someone like Hilliary Clinton to get elected and for her to just send this country straight down the crapper. Just basically destroy it to the point that people rather DIE than live as a slave. Right now everyone is too comfortable. Becuase when you can roll through what we call "The Ghetto" and see foundation homes with 2 cars(Often nice BMWs and Benz'), clothed kids, heat/AC, clean running water, and cable. Then we are not bad off like what you would consider a "Poor" person in Europe. Basically for America to restore it's self there will need to be a revolt of some kind which will probably cost lots of lives.

...but don't just VOTE, be informed about who you're voting FOR. Just voting for someone because of the party they're in, or based on what slanted info you've been given in popular media is just as bad as not voting at all. Educate yourself (general yourself, not aiming this at you, itgirl) and learn about the candiates before voting. :iagree: have there been any debates on tv? i'm still waiting to see for myself the candidates answer the tough questions. i caught some of the texas dem. one last night at 1am, but i went to bed shortly after. PAs primary isn't until april, i think? although by then i may only have 1 candidate to choose from. that's kinda not fair.

Just a little off topic but I think one reason the "United we stand" has become such a battle cry is due to the first political cartoon ever published by Benjamin Franklin... http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/us.capitol/one.jpg Years ago it was believed that if you cut a snake up then put it back together it would heal and live. But if left apart too long it would die. If I remember correctly it was a reference to the debates Post Revolutionary War on wether to have a Confederacy or a Republic(DEMOCRACY WASN'T EVEN DISCUSSED!!!). Franklin supported a Republic which is what this Nation USE to be. Sadly America is lost. Plain and simple. And it will be a couple of centuries if not more before it is restored to what it was in the early 1800s. Our only hope is for someone like Hilliary Clinton to get elected and for her to just send this country straight down the crapper. Just basically destroy it to the point that people rather DIE than live as a slave. Right now everyone is too comfortable. Becuase when you can roll through what we call "The Ghetto" and see foundation homes with 2 cars(Often nice BMWs and Benz'), clothed kids, heat/AC, clean running water, and cable. Then we are not bad off like what you would consider a "Poor" person in Europe. Basically for America to restore it's self there will need to be a revolt of some kind which will probably cost lots of lives. Very well said and excelent point. I'm a pessamist at this point and think that America has already outlived itself (being that every other democratic nation in history lasted only 200 years or so) and is about to crumble. I hope I'm wrong...call it a gut feeling cause I'm certainly not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

Very well said and excelent point. I'm a pessamist at this point and think that America has already outlived itself (being that every other democratic nation in history lasted only 200 years or so) and is about to crumble. I hope I'm wrong...call it a gut feeling cause I'm certainly not the sharpest knife in the drawer. I agree. When I said I'm scared, I didn't mean to imply that I'm living in fear. I go about my daily life and don't worry about it. It's more a "fear of the unknown" type of thing, not an "oh my god, we're all gonna die" type of fear. :lol: Just wondering what the hell our lives are going to be like and how long it's going to take before this so called "Democracy" falls. Yes, I think the US is going down the crapper, and laughed my ass off at the comment of "just vote for Hillary, so we'll get there and get it over with." Wondering what the revolution is going to be like...

Wondering what the revolution is going to be like... I dunno, but I'm stocking up on ammo..... :leaving: ;)

Just a little off topic but I think one reason the "United we stand" has become such a battle cry is due to the first political cartoon ever published by Benjamin Franklin... http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/us.capitol/one.jpg Years ago it was believed that if you cut a snake up then put it back together it would heal and live. But if left apart too long it would die. If I remember correctly it was a reference to the debates Post Revolutionary War on wether to have a Confederacy or a Republic(DEMOCRACY WASN'T EVEN DISCUSSED!!!). Franklin supported a Republic which is what this Nation USE to be. Sadly America is lost. Plain and simple. And it will be a couple of centuries if not more before it is restored to what it was in the early 1800s. Our only hope is for someone like Hilliary Clinton to get elected and for her to just send this country straight down the crapper. Just basically destroy it to the point that people rather DIE than live as a slave. Right now everyone is too comfortable. Becuase when you can roll through what we call "The Ghetto" and see foundation homes with 2 cars(Often nice BMWs and Benz'), clothed kids, heat/AC, clean running water, and cable. Then we are not bad off like what you would consider a "Poor" person in Europe. Basically for America to restore it's self there will need to be a revolt of some kind which will probably cost lots of lives. The good old days when you didn't buy a house you took it from an injun and you didn't even have to pay for labor you just had to feed them and enforce discipline. Every genration thinks every thing is going to hell in a handbasket while their alive history proves that time marches on with out us and little changes.

Every genration thinks every thing is going to hell in a handbasket while their alive history proves that time marches on with out us and little changes. I'm only going to address this line in your post because this thread would surely be closed otherwise. I beg to differ on the words "little changes." Look at the difference between your grandparent's, your parent's, and your own life. Even the differences in mindsets resulting from being raised in different circumstances prove that from generation to generation, MUCH changes, not little. There is another change coming, I believe. A change that is probably necessary as scary as it is to think about. Will time march on without us? Of course it will. But it doesn't hurt to be prepared mentally, physically, and emotionally for any changes that are percieved on the horrizon. Two of many ways to do this are to arm youself with knowledge, and to include and be included in a group of like minded individuals (what we are doing here in this discussion). Not that a differing opion is wrong, but we want to know that we're not alone in our fears, worries, and mindsets.

I dunno, but I'm stocking up on ammo..... :leaving: ;) :lol: After being in the military, I've always wanted to own an AR-15. I better buy one, and the ammo, before 2009, huh? Although, I could probably wait until the election, then if the Dems get in office, go out and buy one at the end of the year. If we get another Republican pres, then I'll probably be able to save a bit more money before buying what I want.

Here's my thoughts on the subject. Forgive me if they are a little disjointed, but they make sense in my head. We, as a people, can't wait for the politicians to "fix" the problems. The recovery process starts with individuals making responsible decisions, not with the government making those decisions for us. Take the Iraq situation as an example. There is no doubt in my mind that we are in Iraq for economic reasons. No way anyone can convince me otherwise. Iraq's economic influence regards oil. The US is the largest consumer of oil in the world. Our outrageous demands for oil are not because we have a thriving economy, but because we are a wasteful, short sighted people. We purchase SUV's that get less than 20 mpg. We don't carpool. We don't DEMAND efficient public transportation. We don't make conscious decisions to reduce our consumption of oil. We have an overall attitude that "hey, I earned my money, I'll use it as I see fit and at my own convenience. I deserve my 300 hp baby seal killer". But we sure as hell complain when gas prices go up $.05 per gallon. Should the government step in and ban low mpg vehicles? Should the government force carpooling? Should the government ration gasoline? Hell no. But, if we as individuals keep squandering our resources in the name of capitalism, the government may not have a choice. So, in my opinion, before anyone can complain about the current state of affairs, including gas prices (which are some of the lowest in the world, by the way), that person should take a step back and ask themselves if they are doing everything they can on an individual level to help the situation (I hope no one is offended, as I myself am guilty of the above "crimes"). I could go on along the same vein ragarding credit cards, clothes, motorcycles, homes, pets, etc.... I'll do everyone a favor and stop here. However, to summarize, the solution starts with me and you, not Hillary and Obama. This is a great thread. I can't wait to add more.

Here's my thoughts on the subject. Forgive me if they are a little disjointed, but they make sense in my head. We, as a people, can't wait for the politicians to "fix" the problems. The recovery process starts with individuals making responsible decisions, not with the government making those decisions for us. Take the Iraq situation as an example. There is no doubt in my mind that we are in Iraq for economic reasons. No way anyone can convince me otherwise. Iraq's economic influence regards oil. The US is the largest consumer of oil in the world. Our outrageous demands for oil are not because we have a thriving economy, but because we are a wasteful, short sighted people. We purchase SUV's that get less than 20 mpg. We don't carpool. We don't DEMAND efficient public transportation. We don't make conscious decisions to reduce our consumption of oil. We have an overall attitude that "hey, I earned my money, I'll use it as I see fit and at my own convenience. I deserve my 300 hp baby seal killer". But we sure as hell complain when gas prices go up $.05 per gallon. Should the government step in and ban low mpg vehicles? Should the government force carpooling? Should the government ration gasoline? Hell no. But, if we as individuals keep squandering our resources in the name of capitalism, the government may not have a choice. So, in my opinion, before anyone can complain about the current state of affairs, including gas prices (which are some of the lowest in the world, by the way), that person should take a step back and ask themselves if they are doing everything they can on an individual level to help the situation (I hope no one is offended, as I myself am guilty of the above "crimes"). I could go on along the same vein ragarding credit cards, clothes, motorcycles, homes, pets, etc.... I'll do everyone a favor and stop here. However, to summarize, the solution starts with me and you, not Hillary and Obama. This is a great thread. I can't wait to add more. Excellent points. Now, if we could just get the majority of Americans off their lazy asses (me included) to do something about it, we might be able to change our country. Too bad the majority of Americans would rather let someone else do things for them, than get up and do it themselves. I'm somewhat in that group, at least when it comes to the "big picture." I take care of MY life, but will probably wait until it's too late to do anything about the mess we're in, which is probably what the rest of America is doing. Me, me, me and hollywood, hollywood, hollywood. I only care about me and my family, though. Don't give a rat's ass about hollywood. I don't have a 20 mpg vehicle, or the latest and greatest of much of anything. I have been a bit wasteful when it comes to spending, though a bit less recently. Guess I could stand to change some things in my life, huh? Oh well, it can wait until tomorrow. ;)

:lol: After being in the military, I've always wanted to own an AR-15. I better buy one, and the ammo, before 2009, huh? Although, I could probably wait until the election, then if the Dems get in office, go out and buy one at the end of the year. If we get another Republican pres, then I'll probably be able to save a bit more money before buying what I want. My dad owns an AR15. Damn fine gun and fun to shoot! I might have to "borrow" it. :lol:

Excellent points. Now, if we could just get the majority of Americans off their lazy asses (me included) to do something about it, we might be able to change our country. Too bad the majority of Americans would rather let someone else do things for them, than get up and do it themselves. I'm somewhat in that group, at least when it comes to the "big picture." I take care of MY life, but will probably wait until it's too late to do anything about the mess we're in, which is probably what the rest of America is doing. Me, me, me and hollywood, hollywood, hollywood. I only care about me and my family, though. Don't give a rat's ass about hollywood. I don't have a 20 mpg vehicle, or the latest and greatest of much of anything. I have been a bit wasteful when it comes to spending, though a bit less recently. Guess I could stand to change some things in my life, huh? Oh well, it can wait until tomorrow. ;) I'm as guilty as the next guy, but I am getting better the older I get. Unfortunately, we may be past the point of no return with upcoming generations of consumers. Advertising agencies are so damn efficient, they can convince a large portion of the population that they need something as useless as a 7000 lb. suv that gets 19 mpg on the highway, or a purse that costs $600. I for one don't have a lot of confidence that, as a whole, we have the collective common sense to pull ourselves out of this downward spiral. I love America, and would not voluntarily live anywhere else. However, its easy for me to understand why most of the rest of the world hates us. I for one am trying to teach my daughter the value of responsible money management, but its hard to compete with Seventeen magazine and MTV. Sometimes I think the Unabomber was onto something, except for the exploding letter thing. So, what's the answer? I don't know. I never thought I would say something like this, but maybe the government needs to exercise some more control to help protect us idiots from ourselves. The problem is, the government is uber corrupt, and can't be trusted to act in the best interest of the whole. I can honestly say that I will try to do a little better each day, but is that enough? Again, great thread OSP. Its really made me think about larger things than what is on tv tonight. Virtual reps to you, sir.

I believe scared refers to us fearing for our future or our childrens futures. I am moving towards a happy life with my family and friends. But I am trained by the army 11B,well armed and have always had several plans just in case.Whether it be commies saudis aliens or..... what we all know the truth is ZOMBIES!!!:yikes: When the world ends and the riders come,(the four horseman,not the harley guys)Ill be ready. If that doesnt happen I think ill get a new ST1300 next year.:dthumb:

dude has a lot of good points :dthumb: Got to love the reactionists. All you got to do is say some keywords and let em go.

Wow! "Where have all the men gone?" "I'm scared" What a bunch of chickens*&ts. You guys break under pressure faster than a cheap toothpick. Bitching about $3/gallon gas? You guys really have nothing better to do, do you? You're missing the point... :bowdown: I'd stayed out of that thread over there, just because (as you said) they rarely stay civil (or open, for that matter), but he's (Orlando1098s) got some incredibly insightful points. He's a really cool dude... I got to shoot all of his guns at the range today... Mucho Fun... o. i don't understand a word of what was written above...politics are not my strong point. vote people, that's the only way our voices get heard. The short version of what was written above is that our country is going down the crapper because our goverment is too big and moving away from capitalism and towards socialism... Basically the government continues to take money from people who have it to give to people who do not, thereby supporting laziness and non-productivity... Making matters worse, our economy is on the verge of failure because it's not backed by anything real, just artificially driven by the scurge of credit... The thread on the other board was entitled, "our next president will be the worst one we've ever had"... As far as voting to get your voice heard... I think that's part of the problem. People who know nothing about what's going on are voting in droves... We need educated voters and better candidate choices... I got real excited when I discovered Ron Paul... there's a candidate that could possibly get our country back on track. Too bad the media refused to cover him... Just a little off topic but I think one reason the "United we stand" has become such a battle cry is due to the first political cartoon ever published by Benjamin Franklin... http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/us.capitol/one.jpg Years ago it was believed that if you cut a snake up then put it back together it would heal and live. But if left apart too long it would die. If I remember correctly it was a reference to the debates Post Revolutionary War on wether to have a Confederacy or a Republic(DEMOCRACY WASN'T EVEN DISCUSSED!!!). Franklin supported a Republic which is what this Nation USE to be. Sadly America is lost. Plain and simple. And it will be a couple of centuries if not more before it is restored to what it was in the early 1800s. Our only hope is for someone like Hilliary Clinton to get elected and for her to just send this country straight down the crapper. Just basically destroy it to the point that people rather DIE than live as a slave. Right now everyone is too comfortable. Becuase when you can roll through what we call "The Ghetto" and see foundation homes with 2 cars(Often nice BMWs and Benz'), clothed kids, heat/AC, clean running water, and cable. Then we are not bad off like what you would consider a "Poor" person in Europe. Basically for America to restore it's self there will need to be a revolt of some kind which will probably cost lots of lives. Unfortunately I see this as being the case... Unless we can get politicians in power who are willing to make tough decisions and force real change, the only other alternative is to run the country into the ground and start over. :lol: After being in the military, I've always wanted to own an AR-15. I better buy one, and the ammo, before 2009, huh? Although, I could probably wait until the election, then if the Dems get in office, go out and buy one at the end of the year. If we get another Republican pres, then I'll probably be able to save a bit more money before buying what I want. I shot one today as a matter of fact. Very cool weapon... I just can't justify the scratch it would take to buy one...

Unfortunately I see this as being the case... Unless we can get politicians in power who are willing to make tough decisions and force real change, the only other alternative is to run the country into the ground and start over. ... The real problem is trying to get politicians to Change themselves. For them to remove their own power. To limit themselves. Yeah like that's going ot happen. That'd be like someone getting a Litre bike and then for them to voluntarilly remove 3spark plugs to hold the bike back. It ain't gonna happen ever. Not until a gun is stuck in someone's face. The sad thing is President Bush was one of our best hopes and did make some good strides that I felt could have helped. He pushed for the privatization of Social Security. That would have been a HUGE HUGE HUGE step to getting this country back in the right direction. But when he did people went ape**** and that idea was scrapped quickly. He was for School Vouchers which if worked out I would have said "America is Saved". Instead the Teachers Unions destroyed that idea. I mean you can't have schools competing with each other to offer the best education possible. F the kids lets worry about the teachers. The other problem is people don't know when to revolt. The last people to get it right where the Branch Dividians in Waco. When that happend people should have loaded up on buses with guns to support what I agree is a nutcase of an individual. But anything to suppres a runaway government. Best thing to do is load up on some ammo and learn some wilderness survival skills and move to Alaska or the Rockies.

I'm only going to address this line in your post because this thread would surely be closed otherwise. I beg to differ on the words "little changes." Look at the difference between your grandparent's, your parent's, and your own life. Even the differences in mindsets resulting from being raised in different circumstances prove that from generation to generation, MUCH changes, not little. There is another change coming, I believe. A change that is probably necessary as scary as it is to think about. Will time march on without us? Of course it will. But it doesn't hurt to be prepared mentally, physically, and emotionally for any changes that are percieved on the horrizon. Two of many ways to do this are to arm youself with knowledge, and to include and be included in a group of like minded individuals (what we are doing here in this discussion). Not that a differing opion is wrong, but we want to know that we're not alone in our fears, worries, and mindsets. Sure much about our individual lifestyles changes, but in context without the individiocentric view one sees that that human behavior does not change. People still ****, they still kill each other and the way that resources are distributed do not change. People rant rave about the government doing this and that and not doing this and that. In reality all the government is useful for is collecting taxes to fund warfare and criminal justice. The government is not good at anything else and anything it does do has little affect in our daily lives. The governments attempts at social control always fail because subconscious human behavior never changes. Drugs are illegal; people still use them. In china it is illegal to have more than one kid; I would be willing to bet that on average a chinese woman is still inpreganted more than once in her lifetime. Prostistution is illegal yet there whores in business in every decent sized city in the U.S.. The point I am making is that events that occur in the world are inevitible and while it is entirely possible that the **** is hitting the fan and were all ****ed. Chances are some of us will die young violent deaths, some will prosper and become very wealthy some will not. Take world war two for example at the beginning it probabably appeared to the average american that the american way could very well be destroyed and we could become occupied by the axis along with the rest of the world. Now looking back it is obvious that the axis were doomed simply because they screwed with us. Our collective desire to maintain our way of life caused us to poor every bit of our ample resources into defeating the axis. If the japanese and the geramns had simply concentrated on the russians they probably could have won but probably not; their defeat was invetible. There was no way of knowing that then and the situation was very grave. So Something big may be coming and many will die but seeing as the earth is rapidly reaching population capacity a thinning event would be beneficial to mankind and the cycle will begin all over again.

The real problem is trying to get politicians to Change themselves. For them to remove their own power. To limit themselves. Yeah like that's going ot happen. That'd be like someone getting a Litre bike and then for them to voluntarilly remove 3spark plugs to hold the bike back. It ain't gonna happen ever. Not until a gun is stuck in someone's face. The sad thing is President Bush was one of our best hopes and did make some good strides that I felt could have helped. He pushed for the privatization of Social Security. That would have been a HUGE HUGE HUGE step to getting this country back in the right direction. But when he did people went ape**** and that idea was scrapped quickly. He was for School Vouchers which if worked out I would have said "America is Saved". Instead the Teachers Unions destroyed that idea. I mean you can't have schools competing with each other to offer the best education possible. F the kids lets worry about the teachers. The other problem is people don't know when to revolt. The last people to get it right where the Branch Dividians in Waco. When that happend people should have loaded up on buses with guns to support what I agree is a nutcase of an individual. But anything to suppres a runaway government. Best thing to do is load up on some ammo and learn some wilderness survival skills and move to Alaska or the Rockies. The problem is nobody cares enough until the chit hits the fan... Everybody sees the fan, recognizes that something stinks, but isn't willing to put up a fight because our lives are so comfortable. I honestly think it would take a full on economic collapse for us to snap out of it...

The problem is nobody cares enough until the chit hits the fan... Everybody sees the fan, recognizes that something stinks, but isn't willing to put up a fight because our lives are so comfortable. I honestly think it would take a full on economic collapse for us to snap out of it... :iagree:

The problem is nobody cares enough until the chit hits the fan... Everybody sees the fan, recognizes that something stinks, but isn't willing to put up a fight because our lives are so comfortable. I honestly think it would take a full on economic collapse for us to snap out of it... :iagree: completely... the problem with america is that we have it so good. the very large majority of americans have no idea whats goin on outside the country, and have no want or need to know. if it has nothing to do with their new gucci bag or their next party, then they dont want to know. it is our blessing and our curse. if just half of america would visit a third world country just once in their lives, i think things would be alot different. but i regress... never going to happen. now as far as the whole iraq thing goes... is this war about oil?? part of it, yes... thats not the only thing it's about tho... people can say all they want about us fighting for oil, and it being corrupt and all that... but to them i say, just step back and think an inch below the surface... we are fighting for our way of life. oil is one of our most important vital resources, it can drive our economy... that and the fact of us having a capitalistic allie in the middle east that actually has some power will bring stability to the region... so unless you want to see achmed wearing a bomb and walking into ur church in 5 years, shut the **** up about the war.... i'm not saying there isnt alot of bull *****tin that the government does to the american people about it... but the truth of the matter is that the american people as a whole are too dumb or too lazy to understand world politics, so we use words like freedom and liberty to help them understand. everybody wants to bitch, but until u actually sacrafice some of your creature comforts to do something bout it, your bitches fall on deaf ears as far as i'm concerned.

Sure much about our individual lifestyles changes, but in context without the individiocentric view one sees that that human behavior does not change. People still ****, they still kill each other and the way that resources are distributed do not change. People rant rave about the government doing this and that and not doing this and that. In reality all the government is useful for is collecting taxes to fund warfare and criminal justice. The government is not good at anything else and anything it does do has little affect in our daily lives. I could not agree more with the bold statement! However, when it comes to daily lives, I disagree a little bit. I think the government has a larger impact on our daily lives than we think, when coupled with the media. For example, political correctness isn't a government program but it did come from lawsuits and whatnot on the judicial branch. Now, the typical American is affraid to call a black person black for fear of offending them or pissing them off. The governments attempts at social control always fail because subconscious human behavior never changes. Drugs are illegal; people still use them. In china it is illegal to have more than one kid; I would be willing to bet that on average a chinese woman is still inpreganted more than once in her lifetime. Prostistution is illegal yet there whores in business in every decent sized city in the U.S.. The point I am making is that events that occur in the world are inevitible and while it is entirely possible that the **** is hitting the fan and were all ****ed. Chances are some of us will die young violent deaths, some will prosper and become very wealthy some will not. I agree. Take world war two for example at the beginning it probabably appeared to the average american that the american way could very well be destroyed and we could become occupied by the axis along with the rest of the world. Now looking back it is obvious that the axis were doomed simply because they screwed with us. Our collective desire to maintain our way of life caused us to poor every bit of our ample resources into defeating the axis. If the japanese and the geramns had simply concentrated on the russians they probably could have won but probably not; their defeat was invetible. There was no way of knowing that then and the situation was very grave. So Something big may be coming and many will die but seeing as the earth is rapidly reaching population capacity a thinning event would be beneficial to mankind and the cycle will begin all over again. Hmm...I really don't even have an opinion on this cause, honestly, I'm not smart enough too. But definitly good food for thought there!

Just stock up on guns, ammo and swords:P when crap hits the fan ya will be rdy :yikes:

I know basically nothing about politics, but I think all of this fear is the problem. Ever since 9/11 the government has been mainly focused on the war in Iraq, not focused on the issues we have here in our country. Due to this shift of focus, people are becoming scared about America's future, because politicians aren't addressing the issues that they should. I think that being afraid of what's to come is just giving in to terrorism. Terrorism is one of the main reasons we're in this economic ****hole. Everyone is afraid of everything nowadays. If we want to fix anything, we need to stop being afraid of everything.

I know basically nothing about politics, but I think all of this fear is the problem. Ever since 9/11 the government has been mainly focused on the war in Iraq, not focused on the issues we have here in our country. Due to this shift of focus, people are becoming scared about America's future, because politicians aren't addressing the issues that they should. I think that being afraid of what's to come is just giving in to terrorism. Terrorism is one of the main reasons we're in this economic ****hole. Everyone is afraid of everything nowadays. If we want to fix anything, we need to stop being afraid of everything. thats a huge mis conception... the media only focuses on the war... that is all you hear about, thus, this becomes what is foremost on the majority of americans minds... thus it is foremost in political debates... other things are being done... the government is trying to fix the economy... that and the war isnt what is ****ing up the economy, job outsourcing, a falling housing market, and increases in cost in living are all major factors in the economy. that and the fact that we have an economy that isnt backed by anything tangible, just loosely backed by a failing credit market. i swear, we should go back to the gold standard

thats a huge mis conception... the media only focuses on the war... that is all you hear about, thus, this becomes what is foremost on the majority of americans minds... thus it is foremost in political debates... other things are being done... the government is trying to fix the economy... that and the war isnt what is ****ing up the economy, job outsourcing, a falling housing market, and increases in cost in living are all major factors in the economy. that and the fact that we have an economy that isnt backed by anything tangible, just loosely backed by a failing credit market. i swear, we should go back to the gold standard Ron Paul FTW!