Big difference racing in the 80's and racing now

the biggest difference is track time.....this is gonna make all you racers out there jealous...when i started out, practive was broken up in 2 sessions, the novice would go out for 20 minutes then the junior/espert would go out etc..andpractice ran from 8 AM saturday morning take a 45 minute break at noon, back practicing till 4 pm and then run heat races for sundays race positions... on sunday, wed practice from 9AM till noon, then races started at 1pm... the reason we could do this was there was only 9 or 10 different races...i use to be able to put over 150 miles on my m/w ss bike and aother 125 or so on the h/w ss bike ,,,use to easily get over 300 miles of track time in one race weekend... :dthumb: then in the 90's, the amount of racers grew, and the amount of different race classes grew...by the time i retired,,,we would only get 2 20 minute practice sessions on saturday then wed start the races...on sunday same thing..only 2 short practice sessions then races started.....also on open test days back in the 80's , sometimes there would only be 8 or 9 bikes to run all day.... old times were great as far as track time...what kind of practice times do you racers get now at your home tracks....???

Wow... I don't race, but I do corner work with MARRC at Summit Point from time to time. Most racers only get two morning practice sessions before the sessions begin. Not nearly the amount of track time you used to get back in the 80's!

It shows how popular the sport is becoming. Hopefully it won't get corrupted and bastardized like NASCAR has...

It shows how popular the sport is becoming. Hopefully it won't get corrupted and bastardized like NASCAR has... yup, it started getting real crowded in the early 90's...dont know the exact numbers of racers but i think it went from like 200 in 1987 to 1200 in 1992......and now theres like 30 different classes of bikes instead of 8 or 9 :crazy:

30 different classes? WOW Both Wera(North Central) and Fasttraxx offer a 3 hour practice in the morning. And your sent out in waves. If your not racing during the day and you have you card it is a cost of 60 bucks.

Correct me if I'm wrong, Jack, but I think the other main difference is that in the 80s, there weren't all of these track day organizations out there. You guys basically were just thrown out on the track to race. Now a days people have the option of becoming comfortable on the track before starting to race.

Correct me if I'm wrong, Jack, but I think the other main difference is that in the 80s, there weren't all of these track day organizations out there. You guys basically were just thrown out on the track to race. Now a days people have the option of becoming comfortable on the track before starting to race. yup...when i started it was pay your 30 bucks for your ama liscense and start racing that afternoon..weeeeeeeeeeee.... i forget the year jerry wood started the penguin school but that was just classes and practice for novice and expert racers....

30 different classes? WOW Both Wera(North Central) and Fasttraxx offer a 3 hour practice in the morning. And your sent out in waves. If your not racing during the day and you have you card it is a cost of 60 bucks. how many sessions do you get yourself in those 3 hours of practice...a lot or just 2 or 3? looks like its 14 races on saturday..and all of them are 2 or 3 different classes thrown together and 13 races on sunday, again a lot of different classes thrown together.... heres lrrs web page.. loudon road race scheldule (http://www.lrrsracing.com/daily_schedule.htm)

So much has change from the 80's till today. Well except for N4S, he still looks the same. Sorry. :jacked:

So much has change from the 80's till today. Well except for N4S, he still looks the same. Sorry. :jacked: ya, the sport has just skyrocketed in popularity...the bikes are better , the riders are better right off the bat also... when i started, if you had 30 new riders...1 or 2 may be good enough to run in the top 10 right away...then as the bikes got better and more kids started racing, if you had 50 new racers..10 or more could run in the top 10 right off the bat.... :dthumb:

With the bikes being better and the riders are starting off better then they did back in the 80's, what in your opinon contributes to this. Besides better bikes.

With the bikes being better and the riders are starting off better then they did back in the 80's, what in your opinon contributes to this. Besides better bikes. good question, asked myself that many times back then....only thing i could come up with was that with the bikes getting better there were more and more kids getting them and riding them hard on the streets...so when they finally got to the track, they were pretty much ahead of the curve... also in the early 90's we were getting a lot of expert type dirt racers into the road racing scene and these kids also just took right to road racing... now you have a lot of people doing many track days/open practices before they even step onto a track so they have a lot more track seat time than we did back then...but in the early 90's it wasnt track time, it was kids just running it hard on the streets, that finally took it to the track

good question, asked myself that many times back then....only thing i could come up with was that with the bikes getting better there were more and more kids getting them and riding them hard on the streets...so when they finally got to the track, they were pretty much ahead of the curve... also in the early 90's we were getting a lot of expert type dirt racers into the road racing scene and these kids also just took right to road racing... now you have a lot of people doing many track days/open practices before they even step onto a track so they have a lot more track seat time than we did back then...but in the early 90's it wasnt track time, it was kids just running it hard on the streets, that finally took it to the track There was much more information available also...Books, videos and coverage of racing. It sounded corny when Cruise said it in days of thunder but you really can learn a lot watching on TV. I especially like the on board cameras...I have learned tremendous amount about lean angles and attacking corners and finding markers etc., Coming from cruisers, I had no clue...Now I have enough of a clue to know I am too old and fat to get too serious...maybe I should get the Futura instead of Tuono?

gonly thing i could come up with was that with the bikes getting better there were more and more kids getting them and riding them hard on the streets...so when they finally got to the track, they were pretty much ahead of the curve... I'm not quite sure that this has anything to do with it, but I will qualify that with an explanation. :) Most people who ride today on the streets think they are riding hard, and I'm sure twisty will back me up on this one, but it's usually in a straight line. When it comes to cornering, many riders are generally tentative. I never realized this until I got out on the track and starting watching how fast others were going through a turn, and then I realized "wow, my bike is so much more capable." I actually got into a little tif at the track one time when I was sitting in the stands. Well, there was a guy out on the track who was a tad bit slower than the majority of guys out there, and these two guys were laughing at him. I turned around and gave them a piece of my mind. I made them realize that the slowest person on the track, is still going faster than probably the fastest street guy in their riding group. What looks slow, really isn't. I think track days are really why more people are ahead of the curve these days. The more seat time you have, the more comfortable you get and the faster you go. I started off like you did, Jack. I did one track day, then I was off racing. Boy, even though I did pretty well, I am stepping back now and doing track days for a while. I realized that I just need more seat time. I think it's nice that we have that option today. Do you at least still get out to the track to watch races?????

I'm not quite sure that this has anything to do with it, but I will qualify that with an explanation. :) Most people who ride today on the streets think they are riding hard, and I'm sure twisty will back me up on this one, but it's usually in a straight line. When it comes to cornering, many riders are generally tentative. I never realized this until I got out on the track and starting watching how fast others were going through a turn, and then I realized "wow, my bike is so much more capable." I actually got into a little tif at the track one time when I was sitting in the stands. Well, there was a guy out on the track who was a tad bit slower than the majority of guys out there, and these two guys were laughing at him. I turned around and gave them a piece of my mind. I made them realize that the slowest person on the track, is still going faster than probably the fastest street guy in their riding group. What looks slow, really isn't. I think track days are really why more people are ahead of the curve these days. The more seat time you have, the more comfortable you get and the faster you go. I started off like you did, Jack. I did one track day, then I was off racing. Boy, even though I did pretty well, I am stepping back now and doing track days for a while. I realized that I just need more seat time. I think it's nice that we have that option today. Do you at least still get out to the track to watch races????? i agree with track days now, but back then there really wasnt track days, some kids that i knew did ride hard on the streets...we have some nice rotaries here in massachusettes and they make nice small racetracks at 4 in the morning...these kids rode hard..hard for the track even...some crashed and died, but didnt really stop the rest of them...when they finally did make it to the track, they were good...without the aid of trackdays etc...plus in the early 90's we had a lot of good dirt track racers who took up roadracing and they did well also.. i go up once in a while, still have some friends that are racing, i miss it though when im at the track...but I put my wife through a lot when i was racing, we had a good friend die the second year i was racing, and helping his wife load up the bike and equipment with his 2 kids crying just put a bad taste of racing in my wifes head (dont blame her either,) but she just hated racing after that, but never really said too much about it, but i now know how much she hated it to the point of being sick when i was out there and i think that would put her over the edge if i said i was gonna race again now.....

Not sure I can back ya, WOS dosent do "straight lines". When we say we ride hard we ride hard. Now if you talking about thses squids that show up @ the bike shows and think their fast because he just put a exhaust on and bought spidi boots. Then I know a ton of them too. But there are tons of "go fast guys" just riding the twisties. A shinning example is Deals Gap I have spoke with alot of fast guys out there and they have never touched a track. I have buddie who does the follow filming on our movies and he has never been to the track but he is smoking fast. I agree with Jack on this. I got fast in the streets and got faster on the track. WOS riders haven't and never will be the slowest guys & girls on the track.

I understand, Jack. We've gone through that too many times. Kind of why I let off of racing. I still worry a lot when Brian is out there, but it's something he is truly passionate about, and as much as I worry, I would never dream of having him stop. 2004 was a really bad year for racing...lots of deaths. Was a very sad year. So I definitely understand, but I'm glad you get out there to watch every once in a while. :)

Yeah it is kinda dangerous but I can never see myself leaving. I like getting bumped, blocked and wrecking is part of the game. I think that some orgs let to many squids on the track without proper training and this is causing the increase is serous wrecks. I know alot to the deaths this @ trackdays alone were new racers.

I try to save my hard riding for the track. When I first started out, I thought I was riding hard around the curves on the street. Then I went to an instructional track day and learned that I had no clue how to ride properly. I picked up a couple books after that first track day and changed my riding style. I still save the hard riding for the track, but I feel much more comfortable on the bike. I just don't like riding hard when I don't know the roads that well. On the track, I can memorize the turns and know where I need to be and also know what the next curve is like. I can't do that on a long winding road like the dragon, at least not quickly. I know that I am still slow by most standards and I have a lot to learn. But I'm trying my best and I'm trying to learn safely by going to the track. I will probably never race, simply because I don't have the time, but I plan to ride for many years to come.

Not sure I can back ya, WOS dosent do "straight lines". When we say we ride hard we ride hard. Now if you talking about thses squids that show up @ the bike shows and think their fast because he just put a exhaust on and bought spidi boots. Then I know a ton of them too. But there are tons of "go fast guys" just riding the twisties. A shinning example is Deals Gap I have spoke with alot of fast guys out there and they have never touched a track. I have buddie who does the follow filming on our movies and he has never been to the track but he is smoking fast. I agree with Jack on this. I got fast in the streets and got faster on the track. WOS riders haven't and never will be the slowest guys & girls on the track. yup, these kids are just fast and never seen a track.once you teach them proper lines they just fly once they get on the track.....thats why i have to think its because of the changes in the bikes from the late 80's on...they didnt have to know about setting up an old gpz or a kz to handle right...bikes are race ready right out of the box .....

I understand, Jack. We've gone through that too many times. Kind of why I let off of racing. I still worry a lot when Brian is out there, but it's something he is truly passionate about, and as much as I worry, I would never dream of having him stop. 2004 was a really bad year for racing...lots of deaths. Was a very sad year. So I definitely understand, but I'm glad you get out there to watch every once in a while. :) ya, as much as my wife hated it, she knew how much i loved it and wasnt going to stop....had a blast, did it for 11 years, met some good people and no regrets.....and besides some bad shoulder problems, i came out of it pretty good physically :thumbs:

Yeah it is kinda dangerous but I can never see myself leaving. I like getting bumped, blocked and wrecking is part of the game. I think that some orgs let to many squids on the track without proper training and this is causing the increase is serous wrecks. I know alot to the deaths this @ trackdays alone were new racers. yup, very dangerous, thats just part of the terratory and you have to just realize it and go on...i started racing when i was 30 and raced till i was 41 and i wasnt some slow old guy out there either, loved racing close, loved out braking guys and just loved racing, trying to pass or keeping someone from passing you. it was a great time,lots of top 10 finishes in the expert class etc, but as all good things, with a wife and 2 growing daughters, it was time to hng up the racing with no regrets at all.... ....and up untill last summer at 51, ive always had a sportbike and will more than likely get another one....I dont think ill ever not ride sportbikes...

Well, Twisty is right on one thing for sure. The guy following him in the Gap video and the guy in the front of him on the michigan twisties vid is the same guy! He is not a kid, he's like 30 somin and is so fast he'll make your head spin! Super is his nickname and he is not only fast but as smooth as water flowing! But like Twisty said, never been to a track day, EVER! That's my only comment....the rest of this is blah blah blah to me...

:withstupi I have never met Super, however, I have seen a few videos of WOS. I have watched the DVD of them at the Gap on the WOS site and I am a proud owner of the WOS Gap/Michigan riding. He is one with his bike and is awsome to see on it. :dthumb:

I think that some orgs let to many squids on the track without proper training and this is causing the increase is serous wrecks. I know alot to the deaths this @ trackdays alone were new racers. My biggest problem with racing these past couple of years is exactly what you're hinting at. Not necessarily that people don't have enough training, but people don't think when they are out on the track. They make stupid choices and they don't think about how it affects others. Because I didn't race last year, I sat in the stands and just watched, and geezus! I was amazed at the stupid **** that people pull. When you're on the track, you're so focused, you don't notice it...but after watching, I'm not sure I ever want to race again. The fact of the matter is, we're club racers. We're not Rossi, or Biaggi, or Nicky Hayden. We'll never get a factory ride. And it irritates me to no end that people will make stupid decisions on the track that could affect others so that they can get 20th place instead of 21st. BTW, this was an opinion of mine...Laura...and no way reflects the opinion of SpeedWerks. :) Just a person rant!

Yeah. Racing is close sport and ***** happens. Some people can take it and some cant. Racing is not friendly, you dont ask to pass people. You take and leave them wondering "how the fack did he do that".

agressive passing and racing in practice is a big no no and it would get you black flagged (it happens but if they see you being dangerous in practice then your gonna get a talking to) that i beleive is still the same at loudon as it should be..practice sessions and track days is not for people to be practicing the art of kamakazi passing moves....save that for the race, which i think laura is talking about...people in races do stupid things to get by someone, and are taking the chance to hurt themselves and others for a plastic trophy, or a few bucks from suzuki cup payouts..... the person that is doing the passing has the responsibility to do it safely...if anything happens during the pass, then its the person doing the passing's fault... as you race with people longer and longer you get to know who you can trust going into a turn side by side and who you dont want to be near... If someone cuts me off stupidly, im gonna return the favor in the next turn or so.... theres a fine line between being agressive and being unsafe, and i think the club racing organizations do a pretty good job of weeding those people out before they kill themselves or someone else.... racing is a sport, and a dangerous one, but theres no need to make it more dangerous than it has to, and racing and passing crazily in practice is just not a smart thing to do....

My biggest problem with racing these past couple of years is exactly what you're hinting at. Not necessarily that people don't have enough training, but people don't think when they are out on the track. They make stupid choices and they don't think about how it affects others. Because I didn't race last year, I sat in the stands and just watched, and geezus! I was amazed at the stupid **** that people pull. When you're on the track, you're so focused, you don't notice it...but after watching, I'm not sure I ever want to race again. The fact of the matter is, we're club racers. We're not Rossi, or Biaggi, or Nicky Hayden. We'll never get a factory ride. And it irritates me to no end that people will make stupid decisions on the track that could affect others so that they can get 20th place instead of 21st. BTW, this was an opinion of mine...Laura...and no way reflects the opinion of SpeedWerks. :) Just a person rant! Laura, what class did u race in expert/novice ?....i cringe watching the novice race's....how anyone ever survies that class still amazes me.....it does get better in the expert class, not always, but at least you dont have as many maniacs in the expert class as you do in the novice class... Loudon (lrrs) has the 3 classes, novice-junior-expert and after 40 points your out of the novice group, and into races with the juniors/expert so that gets u out of the crazy racers, with people trying to win the race in the first turn :wink:

If you go out and pussyfoot around your gonna get ran over, anywhere you go.

Laura, what class did u race in expert/novice ?.. I am a novice, and I ran lightweight on an aprilia. I loved racing because I was friends with all of the guys and they all gave me the thumbs up as they went by. I never felt scared out on the track. What I guess I was trying to explain was that by watching racing from the sidelines after having been racing, it's amazing what goes on around you that you never see. There are some real numbskulls on the track. I'm not talking about close passes...that's racing! I'm just saying there's a lot that goes on out there that as a racer, you don't see and be glad that you don't. :) Great passes are my favorite to watch, that's what makes racing exciting!!! I agree, Jack. Novice races are some of the scariest to be in/watch. Everyone's out there learning the ropes together and it's scary...especially with the amount of people out there. I always get sick to my stomach when the novice 600 class comes barrelling into turn 4 at summit point on the first lap. Hate seeing 60 novices on 600cc sportbikes so jammed up. Yikes!!!!!

I am a novice, and I ran lightweight on an aprilia. I loved racing because I was friends with all of the guys and they all gave me the thumbs up as they went by. I never felt scared out on the track. What I guess I was trying to explain was that by watching racing from the sidelines after having been racing, it's amazing what goes on around you that you never see. There are some real numbskulls on the track. I'm not talking about close passes...that's racing! I'm just saying there's a lot that goes on out there that as a racer, you don't see and be glad that you don't. :) Great passes are my favorite to watch, that's what makes racing exciting!!! I agree, Jack. Novice races are some of the scariest to be in/watch. Everyone's out there learning the ropes together and it's scary...especially with the amount of people out there. I always get sick to my stomach when the novice 600 class comes barrelling into turn 4 at summit point on the first lap. Hate seeing 60 novices on 600cc sportbikes so jammed up. Yikes!!!!! yup hard close passing is "racing", but not in practice sesions(thats what i was trying to say)...and the 600 novice class has always been the most insane...just always overcrowded in the novice class...and if you can survive that, then your in good shape as a racer.. :dthumb:

You know on the "Faster" movie, where the pros are sliding both tires in a turn, do you racers do that on the track? On my favorite twisties, several turns have gravel that vehicles spread on the road by cutting the corners. I try to stay in a tire track, but sometimes I have to cross between tire tracks for bicyclists, rocks, etc. It's happened before and it happened again today. While leaned in a corner, the rear tire hit a pebble and moved out about an inch. But when I felt it move, it was like pure adrenaline in my system. To me, sport riding is about balance and traction. I do the balance and the tires do the traction. I don't think I could ever get used to sliding one or both tires.

You know on the "Faster" movie, where the pros are sliding both tires in a turn, do you racers do that on the track? On my favorite twisties, several turns have gravel that vehicles spread on the road by cutting the corners. I try to stay in a tire track, but sometimes I have to cross between tire tracks for bicyclists, rocks, etc. It's happened before and it happened again today. While leaned in a corner, the rear tire hit a pebble and moved out about an inch. But when I felt it move, it was like pure adrenaline in my system. To me, sport riding is about balance and traction. I do the balance and the tires do the traction. I don't think I could ever get used to sliding one or both tires. i thought that about dirt but you get used to it (atleast on dirt you do )i guess it is intentional on dirt though

You know on the "Faster" movie, where the pros are sliding both tires in a turn, do you racers do that on the track? On my favorite twisties, several turns have gravel that vehicles spread on the road by cutting the corners. I try to stay in a tire track, but sometimes I have to cross between tire tracks for bicyclists, rocks, etc. It's happened before and it happened again today. While leaned in a corner, the rear tire hit a pebble and moved out about an inch. But when I felt it move, it was like pure adrenaline in my system. To me, sport riding is about balance and traction. I do the balance and the tires do the traction. I don't think I could ever get used to sliding one or both tires. sliding the rear tire in slow turns makes it easier to get the bike pointed down the track, on the 750 and 1100 it was easy to modulate the slide comming out of a turn, not so much on the older 600's they were like an on/off switch where it was hard to modulate the slide, it was just easier to carry more speed through the turn on them... there are a few turns on the old loudon and new loudon tracks where i could feel both tires slide a bit just because of the speed going through the turn... on our gsxr1100 endurance bike, after 3 hours both tires were sliding on every turn, but thats from tires being shot more than pure speed sliding.... :crazy: .