to all you knee draggers.

how long did it take you before you started dragging your knee bone? :cheers:

not long once i got on the race track.....

i haven't had that oppurtunity yet. can anybody give me some advice on how to position my body? anything will help. :cheers:

The best advice I can give you is to tell you to buy Total Control and Twist of the Wrist 1 and 2. I'd had my 99 Katana 600 for about a year and thought I was handling the curves well, then I went to a track day. At the track day, I discovered that I had no clue how to ride. Luckily, it was an STT (http://www.sportbiketracktime.com) day and they taught me several things. Unfortunately, the day wasn't long enough and I didn't learn as much as I would have liked (I'm greedy ;) ). The next day, I was at Books A Million and was just browsing and stumbled on Total Control. The book re-emphasized everything the class taught me, but I was able to read the various sections at my own pace and not have to worry about the timing of other folks. I went to another track day a couple months later and drug a knee before lunch. I wore out a set of (cheap) knee sliders by lunch the following day and had to buy a set at the track. I've recently sold the 99 Katana and purchased an '05 R6 in the quest for a lighter, better handling bike. I realize that was a lot to read, but I just wanted to try and lend a little credibility to the books.

Much Appreciated Bro.

I frist did it jeans, going around an off ramp in FLA when I was 17. Then after that I started doing trackdays because there isnt very many twisties in South Florida. Once your @ the track for about 2 sessions you'll get the hang of it.

Good question DLITALIEN. I have just ordered Twist of the Wrist 1 and 2 and now I am waiting for them to come in. Looking forward to reading them and getting to a track day to see if i learned anything. LOL :thumbs:

It took me about my third track day session. The books are good. I recommend reading twist 2 first then go back to 1. 2 is a little bit easier read. On body position you obviously want to get your butt over, how much is different for different people. Your upper body has to get out there too. If you don't it counter acts the getting your butt over. You almost want to get your upper body out there so your face is inline with the clip on in the direction you are turning. The rest of your upper body goes out and forward along the gas tank, your not just straight out to the side. If you watch race footage you pickup how they are leaning their shoulder into the turn and in the direction of motion. The knee then goes out to the side in the direction you are turning. Once you have enough speed the knee should come down to drag on the pavement. It is a guage for you to know how far you have leaned over to keep that angle consistent during turns and a buffer on how much more lean before you are dragging parts. Hope this helps. :2cents:

F4i...that was great. Sounds like its right from a book. thanks. :dthumb:

My first track day. First was a toe and then a knee down in the "Bus Stop" @ Gratten. Can't say my form was all that great but it is a feeling like you can't explain its so good. On another track day I had this great STT instructor which helped me loosen up and get my booty off the seat, which was going great till I wrecked (low-sided) but that was fun too, with the exception of sending the F4 to Honda Heaven :sob:

...which was going great till I wrecked (low-sided) but that was fun too, with the exception of sending the F4 to Honda Heaven :sob: How bad does a low side have to be to trash a bike? My 99 Katana took a low side rather well. It actually just slid along the pavement. I'm still not completely certain of what caused it though. I remember the footpeg dragging, then all of a sudden, the bike was out from underneath me and I was sliding around the turn. I *think* the footpeg hit the inner curbing on the track and that's what caused it, but the tire might have just slid out from underneath the bike first. I run it through my mind all the time, but I can't ever figure out the exact cause.

Till WOS came down last august for our ride....we had no choice then!! :lol:

How bad does a low side have to be to trash a bike? . Very easily when your not wise enough to have put frame sliders on and then run hard on tires that were shi**y and 5 years old :flush: I was running close on inside of right turn, front end tucks and bike slides from one side of track to ther other. Bent forks, entire right side of bike basically ground off, bike was a mess. :sob:

Ouch. I lost the left side fairing, stator cover, and the rear passenger peg and bracket acted as a frame slider for the rear section. I had to buy a new fairing and stator cover, then had to spend some time on the passenger peg and bracket with a file, sand paper and paint. Just got it done and it looks like new. Of course, I had it sold before I ever had it back together. :lol: It will be gone tomorrow. Oh, and sorry for the :jacked:

one other thing on dragging your knee....JUST BECAUSE U CAN DRAG YOUR KNEE DOES NOT MEAN YOUR FAST OR A GREAT RIDER...there, had to say it, i see so many threads on draggin your knee like it seperates the good/fast riders from the rest. learn to be smooth and learn how to position your body before entering a turn and as your speed increases and your lean angle increase, the knee will touch down all by itself.... you see so many squids or newbies and experienced riders, riding around a turn , hanging off the bike and trying to find the ground with their knee, and there not even close to going fast. all it it is doing is making them unsteady through the turn and not paying attention to the turnin point or apex.... so just keep that in mind, the knee will touch down on its own when your ready.....

True, jack. Hanging off like that on the street w/out sliders is a good way to lose a knee cap. Keep your legs in until you get to the track with gear.

[QUOTE=GsxrJack] learn to be smooth and learn how to position your body before entering a turn and as your speed increases and your lean angle increase, the knee will touch down all by itself.... [QUOTE] :yesnod: Even though I touched down on my first track day, after spending time with the STT instructor I learned (well learning) position. Kinda had to get back to basics in the mind and then stepping up the speed gradually while trying to keep correct position. I was tensing up too and had to remember (well STT instructor reminded me) to loosen up, relax, move around on the bike, position and it will come.

[QUOTE=GsxrJack] learn to be smooth and learn how to position your body before entering a turn and as your speed increases and your lean angle increase, the knee will touch down all by itself.... [QUOTE] :yesnod: Even though I touched down on my first track day, after spending time with the STT instructor I learned (well learning) position. Kinda had to get back to basics in the mind and then stepping up the speed gradually while trying to keep correct position. I was tensing up too and had to remember (well STT instructor reminded me) to loosen up, relax, move around on the bike, position and it will come. yup, and when your having trouble with a turn, you have to slow down and get back to the basics of the turn...a lot of times you have to slow down to go fast.... plus the first time my knee hit the track it scared the hell out of me.. :lol:

Dragging a knee for some is goal and for others it is a tool. I have saved countless lowsides with my knees, it helps me find the angle of the bike in a turn, I know if my knee is pressed between the bike and the track I have use more countersteering to get the bike angle up more to keep from lowsiding.

Dragging a knee for some is goal and for others it is a tool. I have saved countless lowsides with my knees, it helps me find the angle of the bike in a turn, I know if my knee is pressed between the bike and the track I have use more countersteering to get the bike angle up more to keep from lowsiding. it is a tool, just too many make a big thing of it in here and it makes it seem like a goal...it will come with faster cornering and more lean angle.. I told you before, its not to be used as a pontoon, and if your using it to keep you from lowsiding "countless times" which i doubt first of all, it will turn a lowside into a high side faster than you can say ambulance ride.....you may get away with it once, but not twice... :wink: now guys that ride 125/250 bikes may use it like a pontoon since there on their rims all the time anyways, but not street/race bikes...

AWWW I dont use it like a pontoon, I use more in a popping motion that tilts the bike up just enough to get it around the corner. Im sure it will bit me someday but, untill then :beer2:

I've seen Rossi do it once. :dthumb:

AWWW I dont use it like a pontoon, I use more in a popping motion that tilts the bike up just enough to get it around the corner. Im sure it will bit me someday but, untill then :beer2: just because your tire slides a bit doesnt mean your "low siding" :lol: ...im talking when your front wheel tucks in and the rear follows and your on your rims just about (actually like Pippi's crash she talked about) if you try to pick it up when your in a low side like that, well i should start a thread...."how to turn a nice small lowside that you most likely would have walked away from into a spectacular high side where the bike gets destroyed with parts flying off it as it barrel rolls into the haybales and the rider gets an ambulance ride to the trauma center" :bonk:

Yeah i know what type of sliding you talking about. your bike moving around is gonna happen but I have lowsided enough to know what it feels like. My stuff works just fine. Once you get smooth minor things like this dont bother you anymore.

Yeah i know what type of sliding you talking about. your bike moving around is gonna happen but I have lowsided enough to know what it feels like. My stuff works just fine. Once you get smooth minor things like this dont bother you anymore. ah, im not talking about sliding, a low side is a crash, and your telling everyone in here that youve saved "countless" low sides by using your knee and im saying thats not true or even possible "countless times" and can get you or someone else that beleives that crap seriously hurt when all you should do in a low side is throw it away and not try to pick it up in the middle of it...the chances of it working is slim and the results are usually bad.....

Yeah I have saved it many times and I know what a low side crash is buddy. So go bark some elses tree I dont need to here banter tonight or for that case ever. Dont hate bro, I have dont countless time, COUNTLESS.....Did I mention COUNTLESS.

Yeah I have saved it many times and I know what a low side crash is buddy. So go bark some elses tree I dont need to here banter tonight or for that case ever. Dont hate bro, I have dont countless time, COUNTLESS.....Did I mention COUNTLESS. did i mention BS, oops yup, i think i did..... :2cents: :nono:

HEHEHE you two are funny. You 2 many be the 2 biggest track ppl on here and you know more then most of us combined and are arguing back and forth about it. Don't make me send each of you to your rooms. :lol: Now make up and do this: You both love the track. Post up a few tracks you have been on, the best time you have ever had on it and the distance of the track. Also your top speed if you have it as well for the track. This will settle it. :dthumb:

but you have to consider the data error factor... :D

but you have to consider the data error factor... :D I'll work that in there. :thumbs:

ding ding its on .... again :lol: naww like DJ said ytou guys are the most knowlegeable so :chill:

I saved a low side crash with my knee and elbow (LUCK) I was in a corner on the street and hit some oil or sand, what ever it was and tucked the front wheel. I pressed my knee down and give it the gas like I was backing it in a turn. From there the bike spun up the rear and caught up with the front, then went into a tank slapper which I caught (luck again) Why all this happened? I was to fast on the street. How I saved it! LUCK!!!!!! with experience on and off the track. I think both are right! The knee is a tool mostly for tire ware and changing direction going into or while in a corner (even on street/race bikes) ,but before using it as a tool you need to know how to ride.

AAAHHH it doesnt matter, he raced during the civil war.

Im not going there! Its been over 5 years since I've done anything except a track day. :whistle: :lol:

I saved a low side crash with my knee and elbow (LUCK) I was in a corner on the street and hit some oil or sand, what ever it was and tucked the front wheel. I pressed my knee down and give it the gas like I was backing it in a turn. From there the bike spun up the rear and caught up with the front, then went into a tank slapper which I caught (luck again) Why all this happened? I was to fast on the street. How I saved it! LUCK!!!!!! with experience on and off the track. I think both are right! The knee is a tool mostly for tire ware and changing direction going into or while in a corner (even on street/race bikes) ,but before using it as a tool you need to know how to ride. Jeeps, like i said, you can do it and get away with it, but your situation could have gone so bad...thats what im trying to say. when u picked it up you could have been highsided so easily, and the results would have been a lot worse than just a small lowside.... 90% of saves are luck, bike just wasnt ready to spit you off it at that time..always remember that :thumbs:

watch the pros, what do they do when the bike starts sliding away from them,,,,they try to unhook their leg thats hanging off the bike and get off it...why?, cause they dont want to get highsided, they realize the consequences of trying to save a lowside and after you get highsided a few times, you realize its not worth the risk.... a novice/squid thinks they can save everything and usually end up hurting themselves a lot more than they should. an expert/pro realizes that they cant save everything and knows when to just throw it away to race later that day.... im just trying to give advice that i got from some pretty good roadracers, worldclass roadracers actually, and save some of u guys the 1 or 2 highsides that can and will happen.... if you want to listen to bullcrap all day then thats fine with me too....but i just cant without calling it out, doesnt make me a troll, just someone that cant stand bullshiit, and for someone to say they have saved lowsides countless times with their knee :skep: ..well you guys beleive what u want.ive said what i think about it..

:withstupi One of THE worst crashes I've ever had was trying to "save" a bad slide. Practicing for the AMA pro weekend at VIR in '02, the rear-end stepped way out on me ... the last thing I remember thinking was "I got this" ... the next thing I saw was the track ... from 6 feet in the air ... and upside down. Shattered my left radius (8" plate, 5 screws), and broke my foot. Sometimes, it's just better to let go and be happy with the low-side. When the wheels regain traction, often times you're now the proud owner of a catapult! - Brian Roach - SpeedWerks.com

Jeeps, like i said, you can do it and get away with it, but your situation could have gone so bad...thats what im trying to say. when u picked it up you could have been highsided so easily, and the results would have been a lot worse than just a small lowside.... 90% of saves are luck, bike just wasnt ready to spit you off it at that time..always remember that :thumbs: Like I said it as LUCK! Its not often enough that you have a front tuck and be able to read ut and correct it! As far as the rear, its allot more predictable and savable. My worst crash was from a high side!

:withstupi One of THE worst crashes I've ever had was trying to "save" a bad slide. Practicing for the AMA pro weekend at VIR in '02, the rear-end stepped way out on me ... the last thing I remember thinking was "I got this" ... the next thing I saw was the track ... from 6 feet in the air ... and upside down. Shattered my left radius (8" plate, 5 screws), and broke my foot. Sometimes, it's just better to let go and be happy with the low-side. When the wheels regain traction, often times you're now the proud owner of a catapult! - Brian Roach - SpeedWerks.com ya, it does seem like the right thing to do at the time...(lift yourself back up with your knee) when your going down in a lowside...mine also happened in practice for the first AMA race at the new loudon track, only i never let go of the handle bar when it tried to spit me off and got body slammed into the ground..have had 4 shoulder surgeries to fix it so far and looks like another one on the way this year....like i said...let it go :cry:

ya, it does seem like the right thing to do at the time...(lift yourself back up with your knee) when your going down in a lowside...mine also happened in practice for the first AMA race at the new loudon track, only i never let go of the handle bar when it tried to spit me off and got body slammed into the ground..have had 4 shoulder surgeries to fix it so far and looks like another one on the way this year....like i said...let it go :cry: Ugh ... I'm not a fan of Loudon. I was there last year running the F-USA Superbike classic (It replaced the AMA weekend), that place scared the hell out of me. I never thought I'd race on a track that made Daytona or Pocono feel safe. The track is actually a lot of fun except for the mickey-mouse chicane you run coming out of the infield onto the NASCAR front stretch ... there's just not much margin for error there with all the walls and trees out in the back section. The bowl was cool as hell though - damn near ripped my knee puck off on the inside gators! - Roach

Ugh ... I'm not a fan of Loudon. I was there last year running the F-USA Superbike classic (It replaced the AMA weekend), that place scared the hell out of me. I never thought I'd race on a track that made Daytona or Pocono feel safe. The track is actually a lot of fun except for the mickey-mouse chicane you run coming out of the infield onto the NASCAR front stretch ... there's just not much margin for error there with all the walls and trees out in the back section. The bowl was cool as hell though - damn near ripped my knee puck off on the inside gators! - Roach ya Roach, neither am i, see my reply about loudon in this thread... http://www.twowheelforum.com/showthread.php?t=1364