The American Sportbike Stereotype

the various manufacturers of sportbikes in the US, Cyctz and allo the rest seem to feel that chasis components, swingarm length and width, handlebar/clipon styles and any other aspect, weight, rims nad anyting else is all fair game to build any method they chose....So if they are open to any type of design why must the "American Sportbike" be a big CI Twin? Why is it that a maker cant put out a "American Sportbike" with a Big (or small) 4 cylinder... or hell even a triple. I'd tend to htink they should only sell it with a big cc motor since the american muscle car was build on big displacement....Just to keep the american style... they can sell it only as advanced bikes and have beginners start on a 600 GSXR/ZX/CBR/R bike then step up to a 360lb 1050cc V4 that pumps a mind blowing 180RWHP, with good suspension. Many of the existing bikes are GREAT in EVERY aspect of the bike except the motor. What prevents one smart american from building a bike?

:pat: I think the big four Jap's have there motors patented. That would make it hard to build a new one without having major capital $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. :2cents:

the Big four are all inline......a V 4 isnt produced and htey patented their motors.. not a 1050cc....for it to be american muscle it needs extra CCs anyways. The idea of a all aluminum Busa motor in a GSXR1000 kinda thing. Theres millions of motor designs they could use.. granted it would take big capitol investment.. but hell Kia started with nothing.... im sure they could get a fiancial backer in a US Co.(As long as they didnt use Harley theyd be ok)

Funny you bring this up. I saw a Buell today at a local shop. Asked the mechanic how they were. He said, "If you have always ridden a Harley you will love it. If you have been used to a Jap bike you will find it under powered. Even if you have been riding a 600..." So, I ask the same question you do - why can't we make one?? I mean come on, even the Brits make a halfway decent sportbike!?

Why do the Italians only build V-twins? (MV Agusta excluded) What would yall think if a domestic car manufacturer got into the motorcycle game? Surely GM has development money to build an all out I-4. And if they can build C5R corvettes, why not a cutting edge motorcycle. (they'd have to ditch the push-rods though)

I think there are plenty of companies that can back a GOOD american sportbike that can run with the big 4. Chevy or anyone else could do it, and maybe the Agusta being a non twin will entice the Italians to consider doubling its cylinders in Aprilia and Ducati. Then maybe that opens it to the US market. Hell build me a 140RWHP Aprilia and id have a new favorite bike, even if it wasnt the fastest. Just dont get cheap somewhere else like suspension or the Beauty of their bikes body work.

The only bike I know that was made in America was that Dodge Viper engine powered one with four wheels. It's not real practical but it's a begining. It would be easy for a big name manufacturer to start up than with nothing. I'd say give it a few years or so before something starts to seriously develop. I don't think it would be easy to build up a large customer base because of the Jap's and Ital's though. They would have to do some serious country wide test ride days, know what I mean.

The only bike I know that was made in America was that Dodge Viper engine powered one... Oh yeah, i forgot about that one. Its a start anyway... The first bike from a US auto maker. If Honda, Suzuki, and BMW can do both then i would love to see more. Mabye even a Ducati sport car....

the only thing is do i want a chevy motorcycle that rattles like a cavalier at idle :nono: ?

...well suzuki makes underwhelming cars, but their bikes... yeah.

weird.... :bash: could u imagine suzuki with a car as good as a gsxr 1k respectivly..... :drool:

Yeah, could you imagine the price for a car that'll compare with the 1K? :jd:

They made a prototype car (go cart really) out of a GIXXER motor once. I'll try to find it. HERE IT IS: GSXR/4http://www.conceptcarz.com/view/photo.aspx?carID=4131&photoID=38128&eventID=&catID=0

:drool: that is sweet!

I wonder if it even runs. If it's only one motor it can't be that mean. They should have used a Yamaha motor, then it would've been mean.

They made a prototype car (go cart really) out of a GIXXER motor once. I'll try to find it. HERE IT IS: GSXR/4http://www.conceptcarz.com/view/photo.aspx?carID=4131&photoID=38128&eventID=&catID=0 Monster Garage tried to put a turbo Busa motor in a bubble car once. I really wanted to see that thing work. :lol:

I like those rims on thye suzuki... Way cool, but anything with that much body and frame cant be as fast as a Gixxer unless they turbod it and it was toally build in which case it wouldnt be as relaible as a car.

the Big four are all inline......a V 4 isnt produced and htey patented their motors.. not a 1050cc....for it to be american muscle it needs extra CCs anyways. The idea of a all aluminum Busa motor in a GSXR1000 kinda thing. Theres millions of motor designs they could use.. granted it would take big capitol investment.. but hell Kia started with nothing.... im sure they could get a fiancial backer in a US Co.(As long as they didnt use Harley theyd be ok) Honda makes a sportbike with a v-4 in it. Its called Interceptor..... The deal with sportbikes is light weight, a big block engine wouldn't work. Their are american bikes with chevy engines in 'em called Boss Hoggs (I think) But their for cruising... :leaving:

Yes it's a Boss Hoss!! Boss Hoss Site (http://www.bosshoss.com/?cid=817150257.912319.397484) ZZ4 Bike (http://www.bosshoss.com/view_bike.asp?x=BHC3ZZ4&cid=817150257.912319.397484) 502 Bike (http://www.bosshoss.com/view_bike.asp?x=BHC3502&cid=817150257.912319.397484) But they're not as fast as you would think....

Monster Garage tried to put a turbo Busa motor in a bubble car once. I really wanted to see that thing work. :lol: yeah, they had midgets build it. :yikes: All you C5/C6 drivers out there: The "MagnaRide" (?) suspension on the corvettes, the variable viscosity shocks that corvettes have, could GM apply it to bikes? Forks, rear shocks etc. If they wont do bikes, mabye they could take some of thier technology and jump into the aftermarket.

They made a prototype car (go cart really) out of a GIXXER motor once. I'll try to find it. HERE IT IS: GSXR/4http://www.conceptcarz.com/view/photo.aspx?carID=4131&photoID=38128&eventID=&catID=0 :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool:

Yes it's a Boss Hoss!! Boss Hoss Site (http://www.bosshoss.com/?cid=817150257.912319.397484) ZZ4 Bike (http://www.bosshoss.com/view_bike.asp?x=BHC3ZZ4&cid=817150257.912319.397484) 502 Bike (http://www.bosshoss.com/view_bike.asp?x=BHC3502&cid=817150257.912319.397484) But they're not as fast as you would think.... If I wanted a 502 it would have to be wrapped in a slammed C-10 stepside.

yeah i know about the Boss hoss and all.. and didnt know the VFR was a V4. But yeah u could easily enough build a aluminum block 1200 or 1100 that would weigh in at around 400lbs dry with the right parts. And yeah Boss Hoss's really arnt fast.. i beleive the 502 runs a 11 if i remember right. Theres def the ability to build a 140HP 400lbs SPORTBIKE with great handling... even if it were 15,000$. Ppl buy Aprilias for that.. and Americans would definalty have the interest to spend that much on American stuff if it performed like the other expensive bikes made elsewhere.

The problem with the BossHoss is the transmission and the weight!

if a U.S. company made a good sport bike, i would buy one.buell's don't do nothing for me.

I am waiting for this one to come out...it has some innovative design work...if they can make it affordable, I'm in... http://motoczysz.com/main.htm

weird.... :bash: could u imagine suzuki with a car as good as a gsxr 1k respectivly..... :drool: They are already here.. They are called... Hondas!

#1 An inline-4 is not "patented". You can't patent an engine configuration. The specific design of each motor, and some interneral parts may be, but that's it. While Harley might be behind the curve if they wanted to make one, it's not like it's rocket-science. Beyond that however - they don't WANT to make one. The V-Twin IS Harley ... they will never change that. #2 Harley doesn't want you. They just don't want to lose any of the "faithful". The Buell is for the younger family member whose father always rode Harleys - they get a "sportbike", and get to stay in the family. It's also for the uber-patriotic in the heartland that wouldn't buy one of those "Jap Bikes" (even though Harley now uses a fair bit of Japanese and other foreign-made parts on their bikes .... but you're not supposed to notice that). :D #3 The new ones are actually pretty cool. If I was thinking about a sportbike for the street, I might look at one just because it's a little different. - Roach

I am waiting for this one to come out...it has some innovative design work...if they can make it affordable, I'm in... http://motoczysz.com/main.htm didnt it do an exhibition lap around laguna and will compete next season? im probably way off... http://motoczysz.com/images/tech/tech_top_1.jpg

They are already here.. They are called... Hondas! :dthumb:

I am waiting for this one to come out...it has some innovative design work...if they can make it affordable, I'm in... http://motoczysz.com/main.htm Bike looks cool! :dthumb: The site sucks! :rant:

Bike looks cool! :dthumb: The site sucks! :rant: Agreed. Looks like a nice bike.

if you ask me its simple economics.harley is the only american bike factory. they contract with eric buell (super genious...really the guy is smart) to build frames but a V twin is cheap and uncomplicated. theres no overhead cams no counterbalancers doesnt rev that high.so why R&D a new straight 4? for the american who wanted a sport bike but wouldnt buy foreign, its perfect. ask anyone who owns a buell and they will say how fast it is. they may even say its faster than most jap bikes. :bthorse: ive never owned an american bike when buell came out i was so happy,then i rode one at the time i had a 93 fzr 600 it wopped the poop out of the 1200 lightning buel had. needless to say until harley gives up some $$$ i will be a jap rider. as far as being non american i just got done serving in the army. :2cents:

There's nothing wrong with using a V-Twin, but I don't see why they can't squeeze the performance the Japanese have out of em!

There's nothing wrong with using a V-Twin, but I don't see why they can't squeeze the performance the Japanese have out of em! Thats what im thinking.

There's nothing wrong with using a V-Twin, but I don't see why they can't squeeze the performance the Japanese have out of em! Except for the V-Rod, it's an air-cooled motor (with push-rods, no less) ... they get about what you'd expect out of that type of motor. A water-cooled v-twin with overhead cams is a completely different animal. As for why they do this ... why not? Their customers like it, and they've been very, very sucessfull since the company was bought back from AMF and ressurected in the '80s. Harley is a very sucessfull company that keeps posting big profits and gains every year. If it ain't broke, they're not going to fix it. - Roach

if thier customers dont care they dont care. Ive heard alot of HD fans say they hate the way the V ROD motor looks, nevermind perofrmance. progress isnt for everyone....

I'd be tempted by the Street Rod if it didn't cost more than twice the cost of a comparable Japanese standard, or even a comparable Italian standard. Same liquid cooled Vtwin as the V-Rod (designed by Porsche), but sport ergos (forward handlebar and decent peg location) plus an upgraded suspension. http://static.userland.com/tower2/images/cafeRacers/StreetRod.jpg Sorry for the huge pic, is there a thumbnail feature for posts like SBN has?

You can save to your PC and upload to this site. Only way I know to thumbnail pic's.

Airforce...just use the manage your attachments section below the submit post button. Insert them from there off your PC and they will be thumbnails! :dthumb: :cheers:

The Dodge bike was called the Tomahawk with the v-10 Viper engine. The other bike not mentioned was the Britten. Built by John Britten and was full of non-conventional wisdom. His untimely death put an end to his genius motorcycle innovations. http://www.sportsbikeworld.co.uk/Bike%20Features/britten/britten.htm http://www.sportsbikeworld.co.uk/Bike%20Features/britten/pictures/brit-view.jpg http://www.sportsbikeworld.co.uk/Bike%20Features/britten/pictures/Britten-shop.jpg

The Doudge thing was NOT a bike! It had 4 wheels! Automatically knocking it out of the runnings for being a bike... stupid :gary: engineer that designed that should be shot!

Britten was a Kiwi right? (new zelander)

The Dodge bike was called the Tomahawk with the v-10 Viper engine. The other bike not mentioned was the Britten. Built by John Britten and was full of non-conventional wisdom. His untimely death put an end to his genius motorcycle innovations. http://www.sportsbikeworld.co.uk/Bike%20Features/britten/britten.htm http://www.sportsbikeworld.co.uk/Bike%20Features/britten/pictures/brit-view.jpg http://www.sportsbikeworld.co.uk/Bike%20Features/britten/pictures/Britten-shop.jpg Is that pile of spaghetti the exhaust? Didn't that bike have carbon fiber front forks?

the prototypes are cool but noone has actually produced it and the Dodge im in agreement with... its not even a actual bike. And the 2 cyl. argument that thats american doesnt hold.. Import cars used to always be four bangers and now every big import has its big V6's and most a V8 truck now...And noone claims they are breaking their roots....i think the argument that american bikes need to be twins would die off in less then two years if someone made a American bike to compete with a GSXR1000 or ZX10R. But i think they could build a 160HP S&S motor or a S/c'D twin from anyone and pump out 200lbs torque and run with some fast bikes.

160hp s&s motor would shoot price way up.there sticking them in snowmobile's

i agree.. 160HP from any twin wouldnt be cost effective, costs too much to build that power from a twin. 4 cyl they could do cheap f it were build in house like all the big 4's motors.

160hp s&s motor would shoot price way up.there sticking them in snowmobile's not to mention the dependability!

The Dodge bike was called the Tomahawk with the v-10 Viper engine. The other bike not mentioned was the Britten. Built by John Britten and was full of non-conventional wisdom. His untimely death put an end to his genius motorcycle innovations. http://www.sportsbikeworld.co.uk/Bike%20Features/britten/britten.htm http://www.sportsbikeworld.co.uk/Bike%20Features/britten/pictures/brit-view.jpg http://www.sportsbikeworld.co.uk/Bike%20Features/britten/pictures/Britten-shop.jpg Sad to hear that the guy passed away but I'm not too fond of the bike. I guess that's cause of the pink though.

Sad to hear that the guy passed away but I'm not too fond of the bike. I guess that's cause of the pink though. I dont care if the bike has hearts and care bears all over it. Its BADAZZ and an aphipany of what the few can do.

I dont care if the bike has hearts and care bears all over it. Its BADAZZ and an aphipany of what the few can do. Hey hey now, I like the design and all, just not the pink. On their website, there is a race version, I like that one.

I'll throw a couple of names into the arena. Britten. The late John Britten, a Kiwi, designed and built a 1000cc V-twin sportsbike that would compete successfully at Daytona. The bike was completely original (i.e. not a parts bin special) and there was a rumour that these bikes would be manufactured in the US, possibly under the "indian" logo. http://www.britten.co.nz/ Hunwick Hallam A collaberation by a group of mates in Aust, this is a V8 bike made by grafting 2 FZR400 top ends to a custom made casing. This was a running bike, and even did a couple of rounds in Aust Superbikes (as a prototype, not eligible). It didn't really compete, but was enough of an oddity that people were interested. And it sounded great!!! http://www.motorcycle.com/mo/mcken/hunwick.html Proton Modenus The first time I saw one of these things spit a foot-and-a-half flame out the back, I said "I want one!" I don't care if it's not winning WSB races, IT'S GOT FLAMES!!!! people can and are designing and building bikes that would provide something away from the mainstream, yet still be very functional as modern sportsbikes. The question isn't why can't someone build a classic American Sportsbike. The question is, When will someone with vision and money back up one of these designers?Britten Motorcycles (http://www.britten.co.nz/) Hunwick Hallam (http://www.motorcycle.com/mo/mcken/hunwick.html)

Chuck, was there a Proton before KR joined the program?

I would be happy to see anybody build a new American production bike at a affordable price.

Jk, Fair call I could be wrong, but as I remember, KR started with the Modenus triple as a GP bike (500?), which didn't do much, but proved that a "non-factory" could build a bike that was at least competitive mid-field ( no mean feat!). The project was somehow taken on by Proton, a Malaysian Car Manufacturer, and as the Proton Modenus has since been doing the rounds of WSB under some very good riders, with some suprising results. If I've totally screwed the facts on this, I'm sure someone will put me straight, But I don't recall KR being involved with the thing post GP! That doesn't change the fact that although it's a mid field runner in WSB, I WANT ONE.... coz it's got flames!!!! Chuck :cheers:

just a thought... So KR uses a 211V motor now. Where is his old motor? I never thought it would be much of a stretch to take retired GP designs and "dumb it down" for a street version. Even if his product line consists of one bike, im convinced it would still be something that would sell. And be superbike legal. Sure hes basically based in the UK now, but it may be considered an American Sportbike. Im know there is more to production than just slapping motors in frames, but its something i would like to see.

KR gave his 2004 Proton motor to Roland Sands who put it in a custom made to look like a late 30/early 40s racer.....200HP and gave it back to KR at Laguna Seca this year.

KR gave his 2004 Proton motor to Roland Sands who put it in a custom made to look like a late 30/early 40s racer.....200HP and gave it back to KR at Laguna Seca this year. yeah, a bunch of us saw the clip. Very mean! I dug it a lot!

KR gave his 2004 Proton motor to Roland Sands who put it in a custom made to look like a late 30/early 40s racer.....200HP and gave it back to KR at Laguna Seca this year. i thought he gave him a 211V 5 cylinder?

according to the thing on superbike it was the 2004 motor which would have to be the Proton.. which was a three cylinder i think... may have been a 4 or 5... but they said 200HP... and i know proton's motor never had the guts to power the bike like a factory... and they were at 220-230 RWHP for 2004

according to the thing on superbike it was the 2004 motor which would have to be the Proton.. which was a three cylinder i think... may have been a 4 or 5... but they said 200HP... and i know proton's motor never had the guts to power the bike like a factory... and they were at 220-230 RWHP for 2004 thanks :dthumb: