The true virgin newbie!

Hey everyone, Long time forum reader, 1st time poster! Woo Hoo! :dthumb: I have just completed and passed the MSF course. My CA DMV test is set for next week. If I pass that bad boy, it's time to buy a bike. :drool: The MSF was the first time I rode a motorcycle. I thought I did fairly well, with the exception of the large spaced cones and the figure 8 in that damn tiny box! haha They passed me anyways... After reading about good beginner bikes, I think I'm going to go with the Suzuki SV650 or SV650S. Is the SV650S tougher to ride due the lower, clip-on handlebars and aggressive rider position? What kind of negotiation leverage do I have with buying a new bike from the dealer? Is there such a thing as so much money over invoice? How about discounts on all the gear. I plan on buying the works: helmet, 1-piece leather suit, gloves and boots. Any recommendations on frame sliders? :scratch: How cool will I look practicing and riding in my local parking lot for months, getting the feel for my bike before I hit the streets. Thanks for your input.

:welcome: The Edge stick around and you will learn a lot here:twfrox: I am an ex SV650 owner and that was my first bike, you made the right choice by picking the SV650 to be your first possible bike. This is one of the greatest bikes to start out on, and almost all of TWF will agree with me here. To answer you questions. The SV650 is a little easier to ride over the S. The SV is also more comfortable then the S version. I have rode both since my older bro has an S version. I personally wish I bought the S version myself just because of the full fairings and it gives off the true sportbike feel a lot more. I put a lot of miles on my SV before I upgraded to the R1, but I don't have any regrets from buying the SV as a first bike. When buying from a dealer don't settle for that MSRP tag price! Make them knock some money off that sticker, and try to get them to throw in a gear voucher for a jacket, helmet, and gloves. Getting your gear is a absolute must. Frame sliders, I had LP (Lockhard Phillips) frame sliders on the SV, which now I have Graves on the R1. It really doesn't matter who makes the frame sliders. Just make sure you get a set on your bike, they all work the same and save your bikes frame and fairings whether you drop it in a parking lot, or slide out in a curve. Hey congrats on the MSF completion, take it easy and you are going the correct route here.:luck:

:welcome: , and :luck:

:welcome: :twfrox: The SVs is a great bike. It was real easy for me to get use to it rather quickly after taking the MSF course. I also really liked the SV, but I wanted a more styling of a sports bike with the fairings. Either of them will make you very happy. If you have any questions about it, we have a pretty good size population of SV and former SV riders on this board. I don't think we had a single one that wasn't happy with this bike. We also can help you with any modding questions you may have when you do finally get one. I have the OEM sliders on my SVs, I have heard negative things about them, but the only other choice is to cut a big hole in the lower fairings to replace them...I don't want to do that. Now let's all gaze at the beauty of these wonderful machines. One of our members jtemple has the 2nd gen SV: http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/5361/pb0510751vm.jpg My 2nd gen SVs: http://www.twowheelforum.com/photopost/direct_data/531/medium/IMG_1778.JPG

if you buy a bike new, tell them that you wont take it unless you get a free helmet and jacket. if they say no we dont do that here just tell them well ill go down to the next dealer. and what price can you take off the sticker because anyone can go anywere and get base price.

:cheers: :welcome: :welcome: :luck:

Thanks for the welcome gang! Are there frame and swingarm sliders that fit either the SV650 and SV650 without cutting or drilling? I thought there were some that installed in a factory hole? Is $500 - $1000 off a new bike sticker a good deal? On a $6,000 bike, that seems like a lot? Is 10% - 15% off gear a good break? Thanks again.

Thanks for the welcome gang! Are there frame and swingarm sliders that fit either the SV650 and SV650 without cutting or drilling? I thought there were some that installed in a factory hole? Is $500 - $1000 off a new bike sticker a good deal? On a $6,000 bike, that seems like a lot? Is 10% - 15% off gear a good break? Thanks again. Yes I have OEM frame sliders on my bike that fit right on top the OEM lower fairings that just bolt on. If you don't have lower fairings (like the SV650 or stock SV650s) on yours, you don't have to cut for any of the frame sliders out there that fit the bike.

:welcome: and you're in good hands with Vol...

Welcome aboard and kudos for choosing a good bike to start on. A bike that you can grow into and enjoy. The fastest rider I know rides an SV650S even though he has in his garage much more powerful vehicles. Summer time isn't the best time to negotiate on a bike, but it doesn't hurt to try. Usually MSRP as out-the-door price (tax, licensing, etc. included) isn't a bad deal. And make them give you discounts on gears. Your MSF certificate can be used at a few vendors as discount as well. I think that Cycle Gear gives discount to new MSF certificate holders. As far as SV650 vs SV650S, that's for you to decide. See if you can test ride both. I personally can't stand the hunch over seating position. But that's me.

I got to ask... Where do you find them leather suits fnfalman?

Congrats Edge:dthumb: Is there a major difference between a ZX6R(03-current) and the 650's power and handling? I'm gonna guess the 650's are more comfortable but whatelse?

Hey everyone, After reading about good beginner bikes, I think I'm going to go with the Suzuki SV650 or SV650S. Is the SV650S tougher to ride due the lower, clip-on handlebars and aggressive rider position? What kind of negotiation leverage do I have with buying a new bike from the dealer? Is there such a thing as so much money over invoice? How about discounts on all the gear. I plan on buying the works: helmet, 1-piece leather suit, gloves and boots. Any recommendations on frame sliders? :scratch: How cool will I look practicing and riding in my local parking lot for months, getting the feel for my bike before I hit the streets. Thanks for your input. Congratulations on passing the MSF. :dthumb: First of all, I don't think the SV650S is tougher to rider but it may be a little more uncomfortable for longer rides compared to the SV650. When buying a new bike from a dealer, the only leverage you have is cash in hand. Show them you have the cash and they know how serious you are and they will want to deal instead of thinking that they may be wasting time. In the past, I have read that people brought their brand new SV650S home for somewhere between $5500-$6500 with the Avg. OTD around $6k. Just remember that a bike is only worth as much as you think it's worth. If the dealer treats you like a king and make the transaction quick & painless, I'd pay a little more because the of service (and implied good future customer service) I'm getting. Pay the price you're comfortable with because you are the customer and you have the power of choice. If a dealer isn't giving you any proper attention or isn't giving you the price you want, walk out and talk to another dealer. Finally, I would like to encourage you to reconsider about buying a 2 peice jacket instead of one piece if you'll only be doing strett riding for a long time. One piece jackets takes a long time & are hard to put on/off.

Great advice and tips! Any advice on helmets? I wore a HJC during the MSF and it hurt like hell. I had a headache in the temple area. It took awhile for the discomfort to set in. How can I tell how a helmet fits by only trying them on in a showroom for 2-3 minutes? I appreciate all the great comments and interest in helping us new kids on the block. In my case, an old kid with a young attitude! :lol:

Great advice and tips! Any advice on helmets? I wore a HJC during the MSF and it hurt like hell. I had a headache in the temple area. It took awhile for the discomfort to set in. How can I tell how a helmet fits by only trying them on in a showroom for 2-3 minutes? I appreciate all the great comments and interest in helping us new kids on the block. In my case, an old kid with a young attitude! :lol: The comments mostly have to do with the questions you are asking. You are asking informed non squidly questions which no one minds answering. You will see more people like me get cranky when people start asking if three months of riding is enough to buy a Busa or something crazy like that. As for helmets find the dealer with the biggest selection of different brands you can find and just start trying them on. You want the brand with the best fit on your head. If it is too pricey or wrong color, then come home and search the net since you know your size, style, and brand that fits your head.

I got to ask... Where do you find them leather suits fnfalman? Z Custom Leathers http://www.zcustom.com They are not too far from me but the bulk of their business is out-of-state. You print out the measurement page, fill it out, tell them what features you want in your suit (locations of vents & how many, pockets & how many, types of armor, type of suit - 2 or 1-pc, type of riding - supermoto, drag, road racing, street luge, et al, graphics). The more features you put on, the more expensive the outfit becomes. A serviceable 1-pc suit with CE armor and basic color combinations is around $1200, cut to your size.

When you go shopping for a helmet, a good sales rep would measure your head to get BOTH SIZE & SHAPE!!! Size alone won't do it. If he/she knows the business then they can help find a correct helmet for your head. Don't compromise on the fit. This sounds silly but it is a standard practice: put on the helmet and keep it on for anywhere between 15-minutes to half an hour. In the mean time, go shop for your other gears while wearing the helmet. Just remember that a helmet's liner will break in and conform to your head too. So a helmet that feels a hair too tight will be OK in a few weeks. If a helmet pinches your face so hard that you can't breath or talk? It's not right. If you develope a pressure point on your head? It's not right. Also definitely consider 2-pc zip-together suit. It makes wearing a lot more convenient yet still offer plenty of protection in a crash. The first time you have to go to the rest room, you'll thank the heaven that you bought a 2-pc suit.:yikes:

Congrats Edge:dthumb: Is there a major difference between a ZX6R(03-current) and the 650's power and handling? I'm gonna guess the 650's are more comfortable but whatelse? Night and day... 2 totally different bikes!!!

:welcome: to the site, Edge. I bought an SVS for my first bike last summer and I LOVE it. It isn't difficult to ride at all, but does get a bit tiring on the back after 4 or 5 hours in the saddle. As for frame sliders, don't use anything except Motosliders (www.motosliders.com) for your SV slider needs. Nate is a great guy that makes a great product. His sliders have been tested time and again by SV riders across the country (my self included) and they're fantastic. A single, hardened, zinc plated, steel bolt that is mounted through the top engine mount holds both sides in place. They're much longer than the OEM sliders and will HELP protect the radiator in the case of a drop as well. They can be ordered for about $70, shipped and can be installed by you in 15min or less. He also makes 8mm swingarm spool/sliders that fit nearly all Suzuki and Honda sport bikes. I don't know if you'll be able to talk the dealer into knocking anything off the SV since they sell well, but I would certainly get them to at least through in a comp on a decent helmet and/or jacket. You will love either bike, I'm sure.

Night and day... 2 totally different bikes!!! Anymore details?...pm me if you want.

:welcome: to the site, Edge. I bought an SVS for my first bike last summer and I LOVE it. It isn't difficult to ride at all, but does get a bit tiring on the back after 4 or 5 hours in the saddle. As for frame sliders, don't use anything except Motosliders (www.motosliders.com) for your SV slider needs. Nate is a great guy that makes a great product. His sliders have been tested time and again by SV riders across the country (my self included) and they're fantastic. A single, hardened, zinc plated, steel bolt that is mounted through the top engine mount holds both sides in place. They're much longer than the OEM sliders and will HELP protect the radiator in the case of a drop as well. They can be ordered for about $70, shipped and can be installed by you in 15min or less. He also makes 8mm swingarm spool/sliders that fit nearly all Suzuki and Honda sport bikes. I don't know if you'll be able to talk the dealer into knocking anything off the SV since they sell well, but I would certainly get them to at least through in a comp on a decent helmet and/or jacket. You will love either bike, I'm sure. You do have to cut if you get these and have the lower fairing...the website is kinda misleading because it says stock body work and there is no stock bodywork on the lower part of the bike... it's all aftermarket....

Anymore details?...pm me if you want. The 6R is a inline 4 powerhouse... the 650R is a parrellel twin made more for the begningers, less power.

You do have to cut if you get these and have the lower fairing...the website is kinda misleading because it says stock body work and there is no stock bodywork on the lower part of the bike... it's all aftermarket.... That's correct. He says that because the "S" does have that upper fairing, compared to the naked SV. I just don't trust the strength of the mounts you have to use on any of the 'no cut' style sliders that I've seen on any bikes. They look like they'd bend/snap in case of a "good" laydown like I had instead of staying stiff and letting the slider do its job. Of course, I don't have any first hand experience with those types of sliders, so what do I know :crazy:

That's correct. He says that because the "S" does have that upper fairing, compared to the naked SV. I just don't trust the strength of the mounts you have to use on any of the 'no cut' style sliders that I've seen on any bikes. They look like they'd bend/snap in case of a "good" laydown like I had instead of staying stiff and letting the slider do its job. Of course, I don't have any first hand experience with those types of sliders, so what do I know :crazy: Yeah, I have heard bad things about the OEM sliders and probably will end up going with motosliders and using a hole saw to cut my lower fairing, but the guy asked if there were no cut options so I felt obligated to tell him they do exist, but not the best use of your money. I regret buying mine, but I didn't know how bad they were.

That's why we're all here. To figure these things out and help others learn from what we find out :)

I hear alot about Shoei and Arai helemts. Any feedback on Suomy helemts? From browsing your recommended on-line shopping links, a zip-together 2 peice suit is not standard or very common. Should I stay away from non-zip outfits? Does a zip-suit restrict any upper body movement from lower body, like slouching - because you can't stand straight up? Being from Southern California, San Diego - we have beach weather all year long. It can warm up to the 90's - 100's if you travel inward. Should I be looking at a leather outfit or lighter, breathable textile outfit? I can't see myself riding in rain or bad weather. I want to make sure that I'm protected in case of... The big DMV test is Monday, my brain is tired from reading all the manuals. In California, if you have not taken the car test in the past 12 months, you have to take both the car and motorcycle exam, plus vision test, etc. I will be bummed if I can see those little "e's". :lol: Thanks again! :cheers:

I hear alot about Shoei and Arai helemts. Any feedback on Suomy helemts? From browsing your recommended on-line shopping links, a zip-together 2 peice suit is not standard or very common. Should I stay away from non-zip outfits? Does a zip-suit restrict any upper body movement from lower body, like slouching - because you can't stand straight up? Being from Southern California, San Diego - we have beach weather all year long. It can warm up to the 90's - 100's if you travel inward. Should I be looking at a leather outfit or lighter, breathable textile outfit? I can't see myself riding in rain or bad weather. I want to make sure that I'm protected in case of... The big DMV test is Monday, my brain is tired from reading all the manuals. In California, if you have not taken the car test in the past 12 months, you have to take both the car and motorcycle exam, plus vision test, etc. I will be bummed if I can see those little "e's". :lol: Thanks again! :cheers: I don't wear leather. I usually wear jeans and a meshy. However, if you have the means to buy leather, buy leather...sweating is a lot more pleasant than skin graphs from what I have heard. They make perforated leather suits for hot weather riding, I know alpinestars makes some (which is what I want to get) and most other companies do as well. Don't get caught too much which brand name to get for helmets, find the ones that best fit on your head before you make that decision.

As for frame sliders, don't use anything except Motosliders (www.motosliders.com) for your SV slider needs. Nate is a great guy that makes a great product. His sliders have been tested time and again by SV riders across the country (my self included) and they're fantastic. A single, hardened, zinc plated, steel bolt that is mounted through the top engine mount holds both sides in place. They're much longer than the OEM sliders and will HELP protect the radiator in the case of a drop as well. They can be ordered for about $70, shipped and can be installed by you in 15min or less. He also makes 8mm swingarm spool/sliders that fit nearly all Suzuki and Honda sport bikes.I have Motosliders on my bike. The picture that Vol posted was taken before I got them installed. They are very easy to install and seem very well built. I'm happy.

I have Motosliders on my bike. The picture that Vol posted was taken before I got them installed. They are very easy to install and seem very well built. I'm happy. Post up some new pics jtemple.

I hear alot about Shoei and Arai helemts. Any feedback on Suomy helemts? They're all very nice & expensive helmets. Go to a store and try them on for about half hour. I have 3 helmets and speaking from experience, if you're going to be paying over $300 for a helmet, MAKE SURE it fits. One word about the Suomy, as much as I love them, they're a PITA when it comes to changing face shields. From browsing your recommended on-line shopping links, a zip-together 2 peice suit is not standard or very common. Should I stay away from non-zip outfits? Does a zip-suit restrict any upper body movement from lower body, like slouching - because you can't stand straight up? As a beginner, I would suggest that you get a standard (as in normal sport riding jacket as opposed to an one/two piece "suit") You can always buy a pant that'll zip to the jacket later on if you decide to ride more aggressively. Being from Southern California, San Diego - we have beach weather all year long. It can warm up to the 90's - 100's if you travel inward. Should I be looking at a leather outfit or lighter, breathable textile outfit? I can't see myself riding in rain or bad weather. I want to make sure that I'm protected in case of... If you're worried about heat, you can looking into buying a perforated leather jacket which is pretty much a leather jacket with a lot of little holes to allow airs to flow through. One word of caution about perforated jacket is not to stay out too late at night or you'll freeze your ass off even in CA weather. I would look into a jacket with zipper vents which allows you to unzip certain parts of a jacket to let airs in during the hot days. Personally, I wouldn't recommend any mesh jacket because they usually fit too loose and the materials are just not too confidence inspiring. The big DMV test is Monday, my brain is tired from reading all the manuals. In California, if you have not taken the car test in the past 12 months, you have to take both the car and motorcycle exam, plus vision test, etc. I will be bummed if I can see those little "e's". :lol: Make sure you study for the car part. I had to go through the same thing and ended up passing the moto portion (which is easy) but missed one extra in the auto portion so I had to go in and take it the 2nd time. Good luck

Congrats Edge:dthumb: Is there a major difference between a ZX6R(03-current) and the 650's power and handling? I'm gonna guess the 650's are more comfortable but whatelse? I think for a more experienced rider, you'll definitely feel the twin engine's vibration more. In addition, you can get adequate power in lower powerband with a twin while the power on my 6R doesn't really come on until 9-10k rpm (maybe it's >10k, I have been riding mellow so I don't remember anymore :bonk: ) Anyway, I scared myself ****less the 1st day I rode my 250 home so I couldn't imagine anyone starting out on a 600 (twin or 4) but almost all my friends started on a 600 and they seems fine. I guess it's really about being mature and riding responsibly.

I think for a more experienced rider, you'll definitely feel the twin engine's vibration more. In addition, you can get adequate power in lower powerband with a twin while the power on my 6R doesn't really come on until 9-10k rpm (maybe it's >10k, I have been riding mellow so I don't remember anymore :bonk: ) Anyway, I scared myself ****less the 1st day I rode my 250 home so I couldn't imagine anyone starting out on a 600 (twin or 4) but almost all my friends started on a 600 and they seems fine. I guess it's really about being mature and riding responsibly. i dont know about your 6...by my gixxer 600s power is available RIGHT away...as long as you are in the right gear (ie NOT in 5th doing 20mph) MAX hp is made at around 11-12k rpms on the 600 supersports..but the torque is made a little lower.....even so...a 600 supersport is ALOT more powerful and responsive than a 650 v-twin. current 600s are making about 120 crank hp while the 650s are what? (around 75-85hp?)..and heavier!

Yeah, SV's are right about 70 - 71 off the floor. If you're lucky and plan things out right you can squeeze 'em up to about 75 with the right addons.

here are a couple shots of the sliders. The best I have at the moment. I was taking pictures of my shortened levers. http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/7786/1145/1600/P4151117.jpg http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/7786/1145/1600/P4151118.jpg

The sliders look good. Being new to motorcycles, do I only need 1 for the frame and 1 for the swingarm? What is the swingarm and where is it on the bike? I'm such an idiot!:whistle: What do you guys wear under your suits - commando, undies, t-shirts?

The sliders look good. Being new to motorcycles, do I only need 1 for the frame and 1 for the swingarm? What is the swingarm and where is it on the bike? I'm such an idiot!:whistle: What do you guys wear under your suits - commando, undies, t-shirts? The swingarm is what my mechanic put some scratches in today while trying to cut off my original can... To put it very simply, the swingarm is the two bars going back off the bike that hold the rear wheel on. If you are going to get a rear stand, go ahead and get swingarm sliders, not just swingarm spools.

Here ya go, Edge: Sliders and spools both come in pairs, one for each side of the bike. Neither of these pics are the best, but they'll show ya what you're asking about. Swingarm is circled in green and the swingarm spool/slider is circled in red: https://home.comcast.net/~Guideon72/img/LSideSwingarm.jpg And here's the right side, just to give you a more complete picture. https://home.comcast.net/~Guideon72/img/RSideSwingarm.jpg In this case, the swingarm spool/sliders are also from Nate at Motosliders, but there are all kinds of options for these out there, too. You can see the sliders in these pics too. If you want more full bike shots with these on or closeups of the parts, let me know.

Yeah on the right side... unless you have a undertail exhaust... you already have a HUGE slider aka your muffler! :nonod: Under the leather... I wear a pair of champion cotton shorts and a t-shirt.

Awesome! Thanks guys. Is the rear bike stand for parking your bike? I thought that was used to "work" on the bike? Is the rear bike stand better to use than the side kick stand?

Yep, front and rear stands are for working on your bike. Get a rear first, then a front later down the line unless you can afford/ find a deal on a set. Rear stands are almost a must for things like chain adjustment/alignment, tire changes and any time you need to take the rear wheel off. You can do the stuff w/o them, but it is just a pain in the butt.

As far as riding gears go, it's very simple: Leather is best. Work your way down from there. Mesh is a lot better than T-shirt & shorts or denim jacket & jeans. If you're in San Diego then leathers will be fine year-round. Leathers don't get too uncomfortable until it gets over 80-something degree. Buy the best gears that you can afford. Some gears is better than no gears. As far as what to wear under the riding outfits, cotton undies work OK but not too great. You get sweaty and clammy, not to mention getting bunched up at the wrong places. Get the Under Armour undies or those types of similar microfiber undies (CoolMax, etc.) . Get the long sleeve T-shirt and leggings. The shorts are OK, but the leggings will help soak up the sweat from your lower legs not to mention helps getting in and out of leathers real easy after a ride. These undies work really well. With just minimal venting, they can help keep you dry from your sweat.

Great, thanks for the tips!