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Old 03-15-2005, 11:06 PM   #1
Gas Man
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Post Is 4-stroke really better than 2-stroke??

Now years ago the motogp everybody went from the old 2 strokes to 4 strokes...

Now I see a big push for 2-strokes in boat motors... suppose to create more power than older 2-strokes...and obviously a better power band than 4-strokes... Evinrude E-Tec

Just thought maybe we could all talk about the 2-stroke vs 4-stroke...

Maybe some of us think the old 2-strokes are great!


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Old 03-15-2005, 11:09 PM   #2
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never ridden a 2 stroke street bike but the 4 strokes kill the 2 strokes on dirt so they the same on street i amagine!!
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Old 03-15-2005, 11:49 PM   #3
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Bulldog, the two-stroke street engines from the 70's were terrific. Too bad the chassis, suspension, brakes and tires were so bad. Imagine a power stroke every time the piston came up to TDC. My Suzuki triple ran like it was a six-cylinder. Suzuki never even made a four-stroke street bike until 1977. Plus, you didn't have to rev the crap out of it to make power.

When I started riding, most every rider in my neighborhood learned to ride on Yamaha RD 350's and 400's. It was a fairly light, two cylinder, two-stroke. It was quite fast against cars. This was when most vehicles had over 400 cubic-inch engines. If you see an old two-stroke in good condition, buy it.
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Old 03-15-2005, 11:57 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No Worries
Bulldog, the two-stroke street engines from the 70's were terrific. Too bad the chassis, suspension, brakes and tires were so bad. Imagine a power stroke every time the piston came up to TDC. My Suzuki triple ran like it was a six-cylinder. Suzuki never even made a four-stroke street bike until 1977. Plus, you didn't have to rev the crap out of it to make power.

When I started riding, most every rider in my neighborhood learned to ride on Yamaha RD 350's and 400's. It was a fairly light, two cylinder, two-stroke. It was quite fast against cars. This was when most vehicles had over 400 cubic-inch engines. If you see an old two-stroke in good condition, buy it.
That is the most important thing!!!

What Bull is too young to understand is that a 500cc 2-stroke will create the same power that a 1000cc 4-stroke does!!! And as you said you don't have to rev the crap out of it!!

Hence the debate I want to start!!
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Old 03-16-2005, 12:22 AM   #5
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Gas Man, unless someone has ridden a two-stroke, they will never know. In 1979, I traded (sold actually) my 1975 Suzuki GT750 for a 1979 Suzuki GS1000. The 79 was so superior in handling, that I forgot how sweet the "smoker" was.

The alternator stuck out on one side of the crank and the (three) sets of points were on the other, so it was a wide engine. The engine was stock, but I changed the rear shocks, and front springs, dampner rods, and installed modified fork bushings. It rode like a Cadillac. With a Vetter fairing, I used to take that bike all over Colorado. I would love to get one and modify it with a GSXR front end.
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Old 03-16-2005, 01:16 AM   #6
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Well, yeah, the 2-strokes are cool! Escpecially my pocket rocket!!!
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Old 03-16-2005, 10:04 AM   #7
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Two strokes are awesome, both on the track and on the street. I have one for the track and for the street. They are definitely a dying breed, though, which is sad. As much as it would be cool to go to Laguna this year, Roach and I decided that since there were no two strokes coming, we would rather take a trip somewhere like we did last year and see the "real deal." We can see the AMA race anywhere...no need to fly to CA to see it.

I digress....anyways...two strokes are a ton of fun. Sad to see them slowly disappearing.

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Old 03-16-2005, 11:17 AM   #8
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The smorkers are awsome, I got the chance to ride a suzuki RGV 500 @ a trackday once and loved it. it was a total race bike, loud, smokey, and fast. And GAS you do have to REV the piss out of them. This thing redlining 14ooo rpms. The owner said that you can rebuild the motor in an hour or so.
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Old 03-16-2005, 12:28 PM   #9
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Allow me to be more specific... they have soo much power throughout the revs and traditionally you don't have to rev em to get the big power band... just as Jack said...
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Old 03-16-2005, 01:28 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gas Man
Allow me to be more specific... they have soo much power throughout the revs and traditionally you don't have to rev em to get the big power band... just as Jack said...
JACK????? not me...as far as i know a 2stroke has to be reved hard...when they lose RPM's they are screwed...have to downshift the crap out of them and get back up to speed...

in middle weight supersport we raced against 250 two strokes and they were as fast if not faster than the hurricane 600's , that and they were tz250s so they had a great suspension....only way to really beat them was to get in front and hammer the brakes so they have to slow down as I could pull away with the 600 and it would take them a lap to catch back up and id try the same thing....once they got by they were gone....dam guys on those 2 strokes dont use brakes hardly at all , but they do have to carry a lot of speed due to the lack of low end power...

im sure Roach can either agree, or disagree since they may have changed in the last decade or so, but i still think there weak down low in the rpms
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Old 03-16-2005, 03:17 PM   #11
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Mrs. Roach can tell you her experience with two strokes. I just got a 125 last year because it's the only bike that is small enough for me (I'm 5'0" and 110 lbs)...well, that thing is MUCH harder to ride than my FZR400 or my ApriliaRS250 was. If you don't keep it in the revs, you are completely screwed. Not to mention if you even *think* about turning, that bike is cutting over the apex of the turn, over the grass and back out the other side (don't ask me how I know this!). 125s are the fastest cornering motorcycles there are, and they don't like brakes at all. I'm having a tough time learning how to ride the sucker, so that's why I'm doing some track days this year to figure the little booger out. You gotta love a motorcycle that has 37 horsepower and only weighs 160 lbs! It's a blast.

Roach has a TZ250 that is unreal. Weighs 260 lbs and has 80hp at the rear wheel. That thing is a beast!

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Old 03-16-2005, 06:20 PM   #12
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Re: Bulldog's "four strokes kill the two-strokes on dirt". I don't follow dirt, but I do know that they allow 250 four-strokes to race against 125 two-strokes.

Re: Twisty, Jack and Mrs. Roach about high-reving two strokes. You all are talking two-stroke race bikes. I was referring to stock two-stroke street bikes. That's apples vs. oranges. The street bikes had their power down low. It was terrific for the street. I couldn't find any torque curves on line, but I'll look for some in my old magazines.

By changing the shape of the exhaust pipe, the torque curve of a two-stroke could be moved drastically up or down the RPM scale. And that was with just a several millimeter change. If the intake and exhaust ports were changed slightly, it was like a different bike. Back then, a tuner really had to know what he was doing. And Twisty, when that RG500 came out, I would have killed for it. Was only available in Canada, but some made it over the border. I see them sometimes on ebay.
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Old 03-16-2005, 07:36 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No Worries
I was referring to stock two-stroke street bikes. That's apples vs. oranges. The street bikes had their power down low.
Actually, I have both a two stroke for the track, and one for the street. My two-stroke street bike doesn't have power down low either. I've never ridden a two-stroke that had any "real" power down low. If you have or have had one like that...what kind was it? I have an NSR250 for the street, and you've really got to rev her to get her going. Definitely not an easy bike to ride. Two-strokes just don't have torque like four strokes do. But they are definitely a hoot to ride!

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Old 03-16-2005, 11:35 PM   #14
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Sorry a little off topic but I thought it was funny.
A few years ago at a track day there was a kid on a R6 making fun of a RGV!
Stated it was loud, sounded like it was about to blow and looked like it too from the smoke.
He later moved to the advanced class and couldn't keep up with the smoker.
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Old 03-17-2005, 12:26 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No Worries
Re: Bulldog's "four strokes kill the two-strokes on dirt". I don't follow dirt, but I do know that they allow 250 four-strokes to race against 125 two-strokes.

Re: Twisty, Jack and Mrs. Roach about high-reving two strokes. You all are talking two-stroke race bikes. I was referring to stock two-stroke street bikes. That's apples vs. oranges. The street bikes had their power down low. It was terrific for the street. I couldn't find any torque curves on line, but I'll look for some in my old magazines.

By changing the shape of the exhaust pipe, the torque curve of a two-stroke could be moved drastically up or down the RPM scale. And that was with just a several millimeter change. If the intake and exhaust ports were changed slightly, it was like a different bike. Back then, a tuner really had to know what he was doing. And Twisty, when that RG500 came out, I would have killed for it. Was only available in Canada, but some made it over the border. I see them sometimes on ebay.
Yeah sorry Jack...it was no worries... I'm with him on the street 2-strokes... but more specificaly the power is every where....
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Old 03-17-2005, 01:49 PM   #16
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"when that RG500 came out, I would have killed for it. Was only available in Canada, but some made it over the border. I see them sometimes on ebay."

Two-stroke bikes were baned in the u.s for street use back in the late '70s, thanks to the e.p.a. Anywhere else in the world you could own 1. I have always blamed harleydavidson for this. That was about the time they were about to go under due to the riceburners...
You remember 'em being called riceburners ?
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Old 03-17-2005, 03:57 PM   #17
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Heck some still call them riceburners!! Are you sure about being banned on the streets? I don't see what they can do about it... at least in Michigan. We have no inspections or exhaust tests done here!

R1shark..... Welcome!!
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Old 03-17-2005, 05:28 PM   #18
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I meant they banned manufactured bikes after that date, not bikes made previously.
If you see 1 made after (i'm guessing 1980)their not supposed to be on highways .Their strictly for track use..etc..

meaned~lol

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Old 03-17-2005, 09:46 PM   #19
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Oic!!!
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Old 03-18-2005, 10:12 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gas Man
That is the most important thing!!!

What Bull is too young to understand is that a 500cc 2-stroke will create the same power that a 1000cc 4-stroke does!!! And as you said you don't have to rev the crap out of it!!

Hence the debate I want to start!!
im not stupid i do understand that but what i am saying is arent they just good for down low power?? there has to nbe a reason the entire world has shifted to 4 stroke besides it is more environment safe
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