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post #41 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-25-2007, 02:08 AM
 
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I just dont see the appeal of that engine. Looking at performance numbers the 1098 kicks its ass six ways from sunday.

Bikes don't perform according to dyno charts and statistics We shall see when the SuperBuell is becoming available and getting tested.

Niall McKenzie, ex-British racer, helped tested the mules and he said that its mid-range is greater than the 1098. We shall see.

As far as the Japanese makes the best I-4 sportbikes, I think that MV Agusta might want to dispute that notion. The best AFFORDABLE, yes. The BEST, no.
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post #42 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-25-2007, 10:04 AM
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Bikes don't perform according to dyno charts and statistics We shall see when the SuperBuell is becoming available and getting tested.

Niall McKenzie, ex-British racer, helped tested the mules and he said that its mid-range is greater than the 1098. We shall see.

As far as the Japanese makes the best I-4 sportbikes, I think that MV Agusta might want to dispute that notion. The best AFFORDABLE, yes. The BEST, no.
I've ridden a MV and it's a great bike but but to be the best you have to excel in ALL areas and I have to agree the Japs make the best I4 bikes period. Seriously,if Suzuki produced a $20-100,000 sportbike,it would kick MVs azz from here to eternity!!! Hell,it'd probably be made totally from titanium and carbon fiber and be factory equiped with turbo for the money that MV wants for their "production" bike that is only marginally faster than a GSXR1000.

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post #43 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-25-2007, 12:17 PM
 
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hey marko,
where can i get info on this?
very interested.
You can't. It's completely booked solid. It's a trackday sponsored by Buell....so if you'd like to see some details...buell.com



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post #44 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-25-2007, 05:33 PM
 
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I've ridden a MV and it's a great bike but but to be the best you have to excel in ALL areas and I have to agree the Japs make the best I4 bikes period. Seriously,if Suzuki produced a $20-100,000 sportbike,it would kick MVs azz from here to eternity!!! Hell,it'd probably be made totally from titanium and carbon fiber and be factory equiped with turbo for the money that MV wants for their "production" bike that is only marginally faster than a GSXR1000.
The best sport bike is the one that turns in the best times on the race track under different peoples. This year MV Agusta won the Master Bike shootout.

As far as Suzuki were to produce a $20,000 sport bike that would kick MV's ass, I don't know about that. But I do know that the $21,000 Yamaha R1 Limited Edition (Marchessini wheels, Brembo brakes, Ohlins front & rear - therefore had no excuses) got schooled by the Ducati 999S and the MV Agusta F4 during one of the tests by Cycle World last year. That just to show you that components alone don't mean squat. And how do you guys explain that the Aprilia RSV Factory won the 2006 Master Bike competition while running approximately 40-50 HP under the mighty Japanese liter I-4 bikes?

PS A sport bike doesn't have to excel in ALL areas. It just has to excel at what it does best which is going extremely fast on the track. If you want a bike that excels in ALL areas, then you need something like an adventure bike made by KTM.

Last edited by fnfalman; 08-25-2007 at 05:35 PM.
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post #45 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-25-2007, 05:44 PM
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You can't. It's completely booked solid. It's a trackday sponsored by Buell....so if you'd like to see some details...buell.com


oh well, thanks anyway.
did you get a slot?

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post #46 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-25-2007, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by fnfalman View Post

PS A sport bike doesn't have to excel in ALL areas. It just has to excel at what it does best which is going extremely fast on the track. If you want a bike that excels in ALL areas, then you need something like an adventure bike made by KTM.
hmmmmm.
makes ya think.

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post #47 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-25-2007, 10:05 PM
 
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oh well, thanks anyway.
did you get a slot?
I have a slot at the track day. They are letting everyone who signed up demo the 08 models...except the 1125. Only a few people get to ride that. I won't know if I got that slot for a while yet.



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post #48 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-25-2007, 10:43 PM
 
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hmmmmm.
makes ya think.

The Japanese isn't stupid. They know what they're doing. They make sport bikes that go like stinks, handle like they're on rails AND make them more or less "usable" as an all-arounder THEN sell them at a decent price. That's why the Jap Big Four are doing well and the Italian bikes are on the brink of Chapter 11 every other year.

On the other hand, a compromised motorbike isn't ever going to be a classic or desirable bike.

That's the mentality difference between the Europeans and the Japanese. The Europeans have an idea of what a motorcycle should be according to its type then make the motorcycle to do the best that it does and be damned everything else. The Japanese makes a product that's agreeable for everybody.
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post #49 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-26-2007, 01:23 AM
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I'm curious as to the exhaust design. Is it routed the way it is out of function, or is ole Erik attempting to make the Rotax engine look like the HD engine at first glance? Engineering or marketing? Are prospective Buell buyers going to be turned off by the Austrian engine?
It's pure function yo. He is quoted in my Fuell magazine as saying that he was not abandoning the Trilogy of Tech as a way designing bikes... It appears as though those pipes serve as a jack point like the XB's... The bike is not meant to do anything, but fill the market niche for an American superbike... Buell owners are excited and I would guess this will turn more on to the brand... Like TW.

As far who designed the engine, Erik is quote in Fuell as saying that it was nice to not have to design around an engine and that Buell engineers worked hard on the engine design... I'm guessing a joint collabaration.

Fluck me the track day is sold out...
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post #50 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-26-2007, 03:07 AM
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The Japanese isn't stupid. They know what they're doing. They make sport bikes that go like stinks, handle like they're on rails AND make them more or less "usable" as an all-arounder THEN sell them at a decent price. That's why the Jap Big Four are doing well and the Italian bikes are on the brink of Chapter 11 every other year.

On the other hand, a compromised motorbike isn't ever going to be a classic or desirable bike.

That's the mentality difference between the Europeans and the Japanese. The Europeans have an idea of what a motorcycle should be according to its type then make the motorcycle to do the best that it does and be damned everything else. The Japanese makes a product that's agreeable for everybody.
Ok,but the MV I was thinking of is the 312 version which is alot more than $21,000. Plus,judging a bikes worth using Masterbike which is a European contest where most of the riders are Europeans,typically staged on a European circuit...hmmmm..how unusual that a European brand wins. Let's see a Masterbike staged at Suzuka with all Japanese riders and see what happens.Not to mention that the Italian models are almost never the standard models but the "R" or "Factory" models. If the Italian bikes are so fast and perfect for the track, show me the Superstock/supersport championships. Where are the endurance championships? The only time they can win is if the rules are so stacked in their favor that it's almost embarassing!(like WSB). In pretty much all the other production based championships I can think of, inline fours are mopping the floor with them. In fact,isn't Ducati trying to increase their cc limit to 1200cc or they're threatening to quit WSB? They're already allowed a lighter bike now they want this. To me the rules should be the same accross the board and if your engine configeration can't cut it then you should rethink YOUR setup. That would be like forcing Kenyans to carry 50lb back packs during races to make it more fair to the slower runners.

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post #51 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-26-2007, 03:17 AM
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Originally Posted by fnfalman View Post
The best sport bike is the one that turns in the best times on the race track under different peoples. This year MV Agusta won the Master Bike shootout.

As far as Suzuki were to produce a $20,000 sport bike that would kick MV's ass, I don't know about that. But I do know that the $21,000 Yamaha R1 Limited Edition (Marchessini wheels, Brembo brakes, Ohlins front & rear - therefore had no excuses) got schooled by the Ducati 999S and the MV Agusta F4 during one of the tests by Cycle World last year. That just to show you that components alone don't mean squat. And how do you guys explain that the Aprilia RSV Factory won the 2006 Master Bike competition while running approximately 40-50 HP under the mighty Japanese liter I-4 bikes?

PS A sport bike doesn't have to excel in ALL areas. It just has to excel at what it does best which is going extremely fast on the track. If you want a bike that excels in ALL areas, then you need something like an adventure bike made by KTM.
I apologize,I didn't meanALL areas like dirt roads and cruising or whatnot. I meant all areas that a sportbike should excel in; power,handling,brakes,etc. You mentioned that a sportbike should excel at going fast on the track,so show me the factory based championships....You are basing your opinions on the opinions of others plus a track day and I'm saying show me the race results!

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post #52 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-26-2007, 11:41 AM Thread Starter
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Actually Honda and Yamaha have been dominationg WSBK this year and last. And you cant really judge by AMA superbike either, Suzuki is the only one in ama with a full factory effort.

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post #53 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-26-2007, 05:58 PM
 
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It's pure function yo. He is quoted in my Fuell magazine as saying that he was not abandoning the Trilogy of Tech as a way designing bikes... It appears as though those pipes serve as a jack point like the XB's... The bike is not meant to do anything, but fill the market niche for an American superbike... Buell owners are excited and I would guess this will turn more on to the brand... Like TW.

As far who designed the engine, Erik is quote in Fuell as saying that it was nice to not have to design around an engine and that Buell engineers worked hard on the engine design... I'm guessing a joint collabaration.

Fluck me the track day is sold out...


Sweet. I must say, with a modern powerplant, the Buell just moved up in my book. Can't wait for someone to give a ride report.
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post #54 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-26-2007, 06:52 PM
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Can't wait for someone to give a ride report.
yup!
same here.

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post #55 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-26-2007, 07:54 PM
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Actually Honda and Yamaha have been dominationg WSBK this year and last. And you cant really judge by AMA superbike either, Suzuki is the only one in ama with a full factory effort.

What? You're saying that for the last 10 years or so Suzuki is the only brand with a full factory team? I realize that alot of the other factories have basically given up on the AMA because they are tired of getting spanked! BTW the Suzuki based privateer teams are consistantly beating the other factories as well so explain that. If Ducatis,MVs and Aprillias are so hot why is over 80% of the superstock grid made up of Suzukis? Those guys are privateers and can ride any brand they want,why Suzuki? Truth is that a number of privateers probably do show up on V-twins,MVs,etc and can't qualify within 118% and have to go home with their exotic,purpose built track bikes tails between their legs! I realize that Suzuki isn't dominating WSB this year but if you'll refer back to the original arguement,you'll see that the debate is between Japanese bikes VS European brands,so Honda and Yamaha are still a point for me! Lastly,at the risk of sounding like a braggart,I've never met a guy on a Ducati I couldn't smoke and just last weekend I rode with some guy on a RSV Mille who claimed to have raced Wera for 13 years and my old,tired azz absolutely left him for dead!

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post #56 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-26-2007, 07:59 PM
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What? You're saying that for the last 10 years or so Suzuki is the only brand with a full factory team? I realize that alot of the other factories have basically given up on the AMA because they are tired of getting spanked! BTW the Suzuki based privateer teams are consistantly beating the other factories as well so explain that. If Ducatis,MVs and Aprillias are so hot why is over 80% of the superstock grid made up of Suzukis? Those guys are privateers and can ride any brand they want,why Suzuki? Truth is that a number of privateers probably do show up on V-twins,MVs,etc and can't qualify within 118% and have to go home with their exotic,purpose built track bikes tails between their legs! I realize that Suzuki isn't dominating WSB this year but if you'll refer back to the original arguement,you'll see that the debate is between Japanese bikes VS European brands,so Honda and Yamaha are still a point for me! Lastly,at the risk of sounding like a braggart,I've never met a guy on a Ducati I couldn't smoke and just last weekend I rode with some guy on a RSV Mille who claimed to have raced Wera for 13 years and my old,tired azz absolutely left him for dead!
Yea with those odds they are bound to win I hate to say it a gixxer isnt all its cracked up to be. Nice bikes but they aint no better than the others out by no means. And then theres that lil frame breakage problem
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post #57 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-26-2007, 08:01 PM
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Yea with those odds they are bound to win I hate to say it a gixxer isnt all its cracked up to be. Nice bikes but they aint no better than the others out by no means. And then theres that lil frame breakage problem
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post #58 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-26-2007, 10:45 PM
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Ok,but the MV I was thinking of is the 312 version which is alot more than $21,000. Plus,judging a bikes worth using Masterbike which is a European contest where most of the riders are Europeans,typically staged on a European circuit...hmmmm..how unusual that a European brand wins. Let's see a Masterbike staged at Suzuka with all Japanese riders and see what happens.Not to mention that the Italian models are almost never the standard models but the "R" or "Factory" models. If the Italian bikes are so fast and perfect for the track, show me the Superstock/supersport championships. Where are the endurance championships? The only time they can win is if the rules are so stacked in their favor that it's almost embarassing!(like WSB). In pretty much all the other production based championships I can think of, inline fours are mopping the floor with them. In fact,isn't Ducati trying to increase their cc limit to 1200cc or they're threatening to quit WSB? They're already allowed a lighter bike now they want this. To me the rules should be the same accross the board and if your engine configeration can't cut it then you should rethink YOUR setup. That would be like forcing Kenyans to carry 50lb back packs during races to make it more fair to the slower runners.

Did someone say Kenyans?

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post #59 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-26-2007, 10:46 PM
 
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Ok,but the MV I was thinking of is the 312 version which is alot more than $21,000. Plus,judging a bikes worth using Masterbike which is a European contest where most of the riders are Europeans,typically staged on a European circuit...hmmmm..how unusual that a European brand wins. Let's see a Masterbike staged at Suzuka with all Japanese riders and see what happens.Not to mention that the Italian models are almost never the standard models but the "R" or "Factory" models. If the Italian bikes are so fast and perfect for the track, show me the Superstock/supersport championships. Where are the endurance championships? The only time they can win is if the rules are so stacked in their favor that it's almost embarassing!(like WSB). In pretty much all the other production based championships I can think of, inline fours are mopping the floor with them. In fact,isn't Ducati trying to increase their cc limit to 1200cc or they're threatening to quit WSB? They're already allowed a lighter bike now they want this. To me the rules should be the same accross the board and if your engine configeration can't cut it then you should rethink YOUR setup. That would be like forcing Kenyans to carry 50lb back packs during races to make it more fair to the slower runners.

Consider that Master Bike is being held at Jerez every year and that ALL professional and experienced riders from all over the world INCLUDING American ex-racers and Japanese ex-racers...

As far as the European bikes are the "R" or "Factory" models go, that's true, but why don't the Japanese make the same types and see how they fare? Oh but they did (R1 Limited Edition) and got wiped out by MV Agusta and 999S (a bike that has 25-HP less).

Why don't the Italians show up more at most races? Ah...like I said before, they all teetering on the brink of bankruptcy. Where are they going to have the money to finance races?

Let's talk endurance racing, the Le Mans endurance race in April had the BMW boxer twin (aircooled) finishing mid-pack. Why is an aircooled flat twin bike with suspensions that supposedly are made for the street instead for racing AND with about 60-HP deficit not finishing dead last?

Japanese bikes are pretty damn good and can't be beat for the money. But they are far from being THE BEST.
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post #60 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-26-2007, 11:08 PM
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Yea with those odds they are bound to win I hate to say it a gixxer isnt all its cracked up to be. Nice bikes but they aint no better than the others out by no means. And then theres that lil frame breakage problem


Man,not that old song again... I've owned four suzukis in a row and have never seen this problem. I'm not saying it's not possible,I'm saying that I've never seen it or even heard of it before this forum. I know guys who stunt GSXRs,I know guys who race GSXRs(including drag),and I know plenty of guys who ride GSXRs and I've never seen this problem you guys keep bringing up. I even asked afriend of mine who owns/runs a dealership here in town if he's heard of it. He said that he had heard "rumors" from other dealers but had never actually seen this problem with his own eyes If someone on this forum has had this happen to THEM please advise me of the situation and please no 2nd,3rd hand hearsay/forum/blog crap but actual first hand accounts please.
I have owned and seen clutch baskets blow up on FZR/YZFs. Two friends who own 07 R1s that won't run right and one whose bike was leaking oil like a sieve from the engine on his way home fom buying it. Kawasaki was having so many engine failures that they suggested new owners follow a 2500 mile break in period. Lastly,on our ride for the metro cruise Sat,no less than 3 Honda CBR1000RRs overheated in "parade mode". All manufactures have problems and failures from time to time. Your opinion or "feelings" about GSXRs doesn't repeal the racing facts that as one brand out of 6 or 7 they're winning about half the championships around the world so I'm not sure what they have to do to be "cracked up" in your eyes but for me that means a superior bike!Period.

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