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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-02-2005, 07:30 AM Thread Starter
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Freedom of speech

It is obvious to me that "TODD" doesn't allow freedom of speech and expression. By the way, who is Todd???? I've been here a while and don't know who the all mighty Todd is. So, if you're a member of TWF, you must agree with TWF and it's views. Funny, if that's the case, where was the vote to all members to make TWT a sponsor???? There wasn't so why should all members of this site have to agree with the TWF (peeps who run it) that TWT is a good magazine? My personal opinion of the mag doesn't matter because I honestly haven't read it but that's not the point. My point is that the members don't pick the sponsors, the TWF Gods do and they support the sponsors because.............oh yes, the all might green backs! Not slamming the reasoning, it's completely understood but that doesn't mean that the forum members here better agree and like the sponsors just because WE'RE TOLD TO. I'll like all the sponsors as soon as I start getting my cut of the action or I'll make that decision on my own. Yeah, Twisty may come across strong but what's the problem TODD...he says it how he sees it. So now what I see is "TODD" is dictating what we can and can't say. Funny......there has yet to be anyone in my life that can tell me what I can and can't say. So before we even get to the point of "TODD" dictating what I can and can't say.....I'll say this.... Good bye TWF. This WAS a great forum right up until YOU started dictating what we're allowed to say.

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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-02-2005, 07:41 AM
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From the information I have gathered, when you first signed on here, there was some information that we were supposed to read and one of the paragraphs spelled out clearly that this forum is "private property" and not a democracy, your free speech is limited. Here is the link and text...Hope this helps...


https://www.twowheelforum.com/showthread.php?t=2334



The last thing I want to do is stifle legitimate conversation. Everyone has an opinion and I'd like this to a place where you can voice that opinion.

However, make no mistake this is not a publicly owned forum and there are no laws governing free speech here. This is a private forum and it's run in accordance to how I see fit based upon my past experience and input from others.
That said, please tell us your opinion. Explain why you believe what you believe but do not attack or flame people. Your comments may be edited or just plain deleted. The thread may be locked and/or your posting privileges may be suspended. I certainly don't want to do any of those things, but I will not allow this site to become a hostile internet destination. It is possible to disagree with someone and be friends about it; or just plain agree to disagree.
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-02-2005, 07:49 AM
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But it is funny we have only heard from The all mighty Todd and none of the other admin. Why?
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-02-2005, 07:50 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bumblebee
From the information I have gathered, when you first signed on here, there was some information that we were supposed to read and one of the paragraphs spelled out clearly that this forum is "private property" and not a democracy, your free speech is limited. Here is the link and text...Hope this helps...


https://www.twowheelforum.com/showthread.php?t=2334



The last thing I want to do is stifle legitimate conversation. Everyone has an opinion and I'd like this to a place where you can voice that opinion.

However, make no mistake this is not a publicly owned forum and there are no laws governing free speech here. This is a private forum and it's run in accordance to how I see fit based upon my past experience and input from others.
That said, please tell us your opinion. Explain why you believe what you believe but do not attack or flame people. Your comments may be edited or just plain deleted. The thread may be locked and/or your posting privileges may be suspended. I certainly don't want to do any of those things, but I will not allow this site to become a hostile internet destination. It is possible to disagree with someone and be friends about it; or just plain agree to disagree.

True...and I fully expected this to come up eventually. Like I said though, no one is going to tell me what I can and can't say. Bottom line is this, Twisty said it how he sees it and "TODD" didn't like it. If TWT was smart, they'd listen to what Twisty is saying and take the constructive critism and use it to make their magazine better. You are right...it is privately owned........so the OWNERS can fully support the sponsors but that doesn't mean the rest of us have to. Like I previously said, I don't read or never have read TWT and this isn't about them (in my eyes), it's about being told that I must support TWF sponsors...................NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. I'm not being told who I can and can't support.

Bee...I'm not attacking you here and I hope you know that. It just chaps me that something like this has gotten to this point over someone voicing their opinion.

"This is a private forum and it's run in accordance to how I see fit based upon my past experience and input from others" Yep, it's in the guidelines and I respect that and in many cases, can see why it has to be this way or we'd have porn and NWS stuff all over this website but I think that statement was taken too far by "TODD" to show support to TWT and it was wrong.

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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-02-2005, 07:50 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Section8-Motorsports
But it is funny we have only heard from The all mighty Todd and none of the other admin. Why?
Great point and actually....TODD has become quit silent to your many requests for an explanation which I think we all deserve.

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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-02-2005, 07:53 AM
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Figure I would put my opinion here as this is the start to a better thread than the one I posted in earlier (edited slightly):

So people can't post their opinions anymore? Why have you now started regulating who can say what, when, and about what. I was real excited when I first joined this site. There were a good number of people around with some good knowledge to share. I guess those people are still around (well not all of 'em anymore) but this ban is ludicrous. If you want to take steps to clean up the site, then start banning/regulating the damn postwhore crap that goes on; Not the people who actually contribute content.

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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-02-2005, 07:56 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Becca_007
Figure I would put my opinion here as this is the start to a better thread than the one I posted in earlier (edited slightly):

So people can't post their opinions anymore? Why have you now started regulating who can say what, when, and about what. I was real excited when I first joined this site. There were a good number of people around with some good knowledge to share. I guess those people are still around (well not all of 'em anymore) but this ban is ludicrous. If you want to take steps to clean up the site, then start banning/regulating the damn postwhore crap that goes on; Not the people who actually contribute content.


Excellent point Becca....especially on the postwhoring crap. Well said.

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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-02-2005, 08:34 AM
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I am not picking sides here, I see both, but I will say that Two Wheel Tuner magazine did post Twisty's letter that was critical of them in their magazine. Twisty sent them a letter that mirrored a thread he posted here. I also saw in this past issue where TWT, in their editorial, partially validated Twisty's view by admitting they have had issues dealing with the ads presented to them. Twisty won a battle (in my opinion), but he lost the war when he did "bite the hand that feeds us all" I read the posts before the threads were locked. I know at times Twisty has used a 10lb sledge where a flyswatter would have worked. I am not going to take any sides on the suspension and the management issues because I know nothing of the dynamics between Twisty and the management here. Also, this forum is private property and Shan and his partners have the right to treat us any way they want. I hope they will exercise clear thinking and unbiased views in their decision making, but they could pull the plug if they choose.

I like it here, I have found some people I consider to be friends through here, and they would be welcome in my home, even though I have not laid eyes on them and Twisty is one of those people. To end this I will say that as a business person and employer, I know that professionalism is not something you put on and take off, like a suit. It is a way of life you must maintain, because in order to earn respect, you must be respectful. You can make your point without referring to a monkey's anatomy and still be effective. I will miss twisty and others if you choose to leave, I hope you do not. However, you must stay true to yourselves.

Last edited by bumblebee; 05-02-2005 at 08:39 AM.
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-02-2005, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bumblebee
I am not picking sides here, I see both, but I will say that Two Wheel Tuner magazine did post Twisty's letter that was critical of them in their magazine. Twisty sent them a letter that mirrored a thread he posted here. I also saw in this past issue where TWT, in their editorial, partially validated Twisty's view by admitting they have had issues dealing with the ads presented to them. Twisty won a battle (in my opinion), but he lost the war when he did "bite the hand that feeds us all" I read the posts before the threads were locked. I know at times Twisty has used a 10lb sledge where a flyswatter would have worked. I am not going to take any sides on the suspension and the management issues because I know nothing of the dynamics between Twisty and the management here. Also, this forum is private property and Shan and his partners have the right to treat us any way they want. I hope they will exercise clear thinking and unbiased views in their decision making, but they could pull the plug if they choose.

I like it here, I have found some people I consider to be friends through here, and they would be welcome in my home, even though I have not laid eyes on them and Twisty is one of those people. To end this I will say that as a business person and employer, I know that professionalism is not something you put on and take off, like a suit. It is a way of life you must maintain, because in order to earn respect, you must be respectful. You can make your point without referring to a monkey's anatomy and still be effective. I will miss twisty and others if you choose to leave, I hope you do not. However, you must stay true to yourselves.
Actually, no Bee - Twisty did not send a letter, TWT took it off this "private" forum and printed it in their magazine.

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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-02-2005, 09:01 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pippi
Actually, no Bee - Twisty did not send a letter, TWT took it off this "private" forum and printed it in their magazine.
Interesting.....since this is a "private" forum....not public as it's been stated....my question is, when did TWT get permission to use what Twisty said on here?????????

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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-02-2005, 09:02 AM
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Its about the same difference.
He made a public statement and it was published.
What's the difference in the eyes of TODD.
But I'm just a

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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-02-2005, 09:10 AM
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I'm going to temporarily lock this thread until Todd has a chance to see and respond; it's only fair since he has not yet seen this thread.

All, please understand that there are two sides to every story. Rarely does any one single incident lead to something like this. There IS history there (of which I've been a part of), some of which you many know and some of which you may not. I'm not obligated to air dirty laundry for all to see, nor is that necessary.


Regardless, please be objective in your opinion forming and realize there are two sides to every story.

Incidentally, Todd has been with us from day one. He's not an active poster as much as myself or many members. However, he IS a moderator on this forum and has the right to take actions. I stand behind Todd, and without knowing the full story, you might want to reconsider impeaching his character before posting about him.

Lastly, thank you to Bumblebee for reprinting the free speech text from the user agreement. I don't want to quash opinions or censor someone's expression, but we will do it if deemed necessary; i.e porn, flame wars etc.
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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-02-2005, 09:34 AM
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As moderators, we have the job to make this forum as enjoyable as possible for everyone reading. That includes doing the dirty work on occasion and as a group, the moderators decide the appropriate action. Twisty's 5-day ban was not the result of excercising free speech, it was the result of numerous offensive and argumentative posts that took away from the friendly atmosphere of the forum.

As was stated directly to Twisty, we value his opinions as much as the next person, however the forum must remain peaceful for all involved. He was given a 5-day vacation from the forum and is free to return following that, provided a level of peace can be maintained.

That said, acting out against the decisions of the moderators will not be tolerated. Warnings have been given to the guilty parties.

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