TWT Public Bashing Of Twisty - TwoWheelForum: Motorcycle and Sportbike forums
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post #1 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-03-2005, 08:56 AM Thread Starter
 
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TWT Public Bashing Of Twisty

To all, attached is the letter that Two Wheel Tuner printed in their magazine. This letter was taken from a post that Twisty posted right here on TWF. TWT took this post from this website without permission of anyone and then put it in print in their magazine and publicly bashed Twisty.....I'm refering to their "Advocate" reference to them thinking Twisty is gay. You can all draw your own conclusions to this one but what give TWT the right to come on here, take a post from this board, and print it in their magazine and bash Twisty's character publicly???? Funny, so Twisty fires back, here, at TWF, the place where Tuner stole the post from, and Todd suspends him. Wow, it gets better by the day and this is more then enough proof then I need to say that Twisty wasn't wrong what so ever. TWF handled this situation completely wrong and your beloved sponsor had no business printing Twisty's post let alone publicly bashing him as they did. TWF screwed up huge on this one. Your sponsor is dead wrong for what they did and TWF is dead wrong for backing them, let alone having them around here. This is the type of sponsorship that TWF is associated with???? I have lost all respect for TWF. I never had any for Tuner so it doesn't matter but after all this took place and TWF jumped to TWT side without knowing the whole story.....I hope it was worth it because you lost the WOS family and I'm sure many will follow. TWF was a good place but I guess you don't really know someone until something of this nature happens. As a lot have said, you handled this all wrong and now the ditch gets bigger. I said yesterday that the next 24 hours could make or break TWF....well, it sure broke you guys in my eyes. There are great people here, truly there are and a lot of good people I'll miss but I won't miss TWF.....you guys showed your true colors. So, go ahead Admins.....shut me down, delete this thread, I'm sure you will, you'll do it in an effort to hide the truth just like Todd was doing yesterday. The truth will get out there and TWT will be exposed for the way they have publicly bashed someone who use to be a dedicated TWF poster.....Twisty.
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post #2 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-03-2005, 09:08 AM
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Ok, got it. Two wrongs = right. That makes sense.


FWIW, I'll leave this thread open for a little while so everyone can complain in here. I'm closing down the other threads, though.
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post #3 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-03-2005, 09:11 AM Thread Starter
 
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Nice response Shan....."two wrongs make a right". Incredible. So what your saying is it's OK for TWT to do because they throw money at you and they can go out and print stuff (anything for that matter) off of here....in my eyes steal it, and print it, and bash a member of YOUR site, and then you'll just look the other way and let it go........... Interesting, so what your telling me is Twisty had no right firing back and defending himself??? SO let me ask you this then, if I go on here or any site or magazine, or any public forum and bash you Shan............are you just going to let it go???????? I HIGHLY DOUBT IT.
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post #4 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-03-2005, 09:19 AM
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Don't put words in my mouth, "So what you're telling me..."

You know what, I'm just tired of all of this. I admit there both sides made mistakes, but I have a hard time believing you feel the same way. Is WOS infallible? I mean, c'mon. Things could have been handled differently.

What do you want from me?

Twisty has a right to defend himself against the MAGAZINE. TWF is NOT 2WT. Twisty's problem isn't with me or this site.
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post #5 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-03-2005, 09:25 AM
 
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I do think the reference to the gay magazine was a bit harsh, even if it was intended to be humorous. I think a good resolution would be for each to apologize in the media where they offended the other. And then, we can all sit down and have a beer or 12...
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post #6 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-03-2005, 09:31 AM Thread Starter
 
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Tuner took a post off of your site. Instead of handling things here, where it started, they took it a step further (too far in my mind) and went and publicly humiliated him in their magazine....a magazine that you endorse. I'm not saying WOS is perfect and we don't do anything wrong, that's not what I'm saying at all. What did you expect, that we wouldn't stand together on this one??? I read everything and came to my own conclusions. Had I really thought Twisty was way out of line on this one, I would have pulled him aside and put my "dad" hat on and talked to him about things. I was mad yesterday at the way this thing was handled in general, and now seeing the arcticle that they printed, I'm outraged. Come on....this whole thing started right here on your forum. Twisty told in his usual blunt way what he thought of Tuner. He never said a beautiful woman wasn't nice to see in a magazine, he said he'd like to see more motorcycle stuff and not all the smut. So Tuner took that off of HERE and went out and printed it in their mag and made reference to Twisty being gay. What gave them that right? What gave them that right to pull something off of here and print it and bash a TWF member? See, in a nutshell, the fight started here, Tuner should have kept it on here and had the debates here, instead they went and printed it and took it too far. Now I know you're going to stand here and defend Tuner, I knew you would. It's the power of the all mighty dollar talking now. I understand completely but if it's fair for Tuner to publicly bash anyone they want, then the same goes the other way too. Seems to me like they can dish it out but can't take a punch themselves. Just how I see it.
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post #7 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-03-2005, 09:37 AM
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This site operates from money out-of-pocket, subsidized by vendors. I support the vendors like you support twisty. Without it, this place wouldn't exist.

2WT took it from this site, sure. I wasn't asked permission.

Again, I ask. What do you want me to do?
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post #8 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-03-2005, 09:50 AM Thread Starter
 
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Shan, I can't answer how you should handle it because I don't know all the details on why what happened....happened. Lets leave it at this, I don't have the inside scoop on how TWF is run and what exactly the relationship between Tuner and TWF is. I also don't know Todd or his role in TWF. I also don't know how you guys work things, like suspensions. If there are guidlines or what. I also don't know your rules or feelings on something being taken from here and then printed in a magazine. At the end of the day Shan, I don't work for TWF and I don't have the insider info needed to tell you what I think you should do. Do I have ideas, I have a bunch but without knowing all the facts, I'm not going to give ideas publicly. I'd be willing to take this off-line if you wanted but I'm going to need some more info....the insider type stuff to give you any advice. I'm sure that's stuff you won't share and I don't expect you to. IF you'd like some generic ideas, off-line, I'll do it but I won't do it here.....only because I know that you're trying to do damage control right now and I respect that and doing so here will only get things out of hand more then they are. This is a real "lessons learned" situation.
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post #9 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-03-2005, 09:51 AM
 
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i was curious since they didnt have permission is this something that could happen in the future or will they need permission from now on.
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post #10 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-03-2005, 09:52 AM
 
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[QUOTE=ShanMan14] I support the vendors like you support twisty.
[QUOTE]

Shan - I do understand your point here.

But......

When TWT was losing the battle on the chicks argument on TWF - they printed that post in their mag & made gay references....Round #2 Twisty posts opinion of TWT and thread gets shut down & him banned.....It just seems like forum members have a different set of rules than TWT, and supporting vendor or not that is completely unacceptable.

I did actually think TWT was ok, was excited Metro Detroit area had thier own sportbike mag, but after the "smut" kept increasing they definetly lost me as a reader! Any good mag would have taken the comments to improve thier mag - not make gay references about a forum member.

I think the only thing to do about it now is add into your forum rules that you are not only are you not allowed to express opinions, but also TWT is subject to different rules then forum posters, and don't piss em off - they'll bash you in their mag!

You did say that TWF is NOT TWT but with the allowance of recent events TWF is more of TWT than I was lead to believe.

Last edited by Pippi; 05-03-2005 at 10:12 AM.
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post #11 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-03-2005, 09:53 AM
 
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Quote:
I understand completely but if it's fair for Tuner to publicly bash anyone they want, then the same goes the other way too. Seems to me like they can dish it out but can't take a punch themselves. Just how I see it.
seems to me that twisty can dish it out but cant take it.....the way i see it, and i didnt see the original post in here that was printed by TWT,

twisty posts his displeasure with TWT mag in here, so im sure he got an email or a PM from someone in here that dissing a forum sponser is not allowed (someone that knows correct me if im wrong on that because that would make a big difference to me) so then TWT posts his displeasure with their magazine in their magazine....with a snide comment, (god knows twisty never called anyone gay in here ) so now twisty calls TWT out again on a thread and is given a 5 day suspension, now everyone is up in arms cause someone did to twist what he does all the time in here to people that , god forbid, dont agree with him......

and they didnt do it in here, they did it on their own magazine, and dont kid yourself,anything you write on the internet is not privalige information...it can be used at anytime, anywhere...

bottom line is Twist wrote his displeasure about a forum sponser's mag on a public forum,and got a public reply (just as if he replied to an editorial in their mag) he didnt like it, was told not to diss a forum sponser in here, did it again and got 5 days off....now everyone is up in arms about their constitutional rights, dissing the forum and their mods and admin and just showing their true colors....This place doesnt need anyone, me included, so dont think cause a few members leave here this place will fall down and die, the members that are leaving have shown their true colors before they left..

again, just 2 cents from the old guy that needs young people to look up to him...
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post #12 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-03-2005, 10:01 AM Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GsxrJack
seems to me that twisty can dish it out but cant take it.....the way i see it, and i didnt see the original post in here that was printed by TWT,

twisty posts his displeasure with TWT mag in here, so im sure he got an email or a PM from someone in here that dissing a forum sponser is not allowed (someone that knows correct me if im wrong on that because that would make a big difference to me) so then TWT posts his displeasure with their magazine in their magazine....with a snide comment, (god knows twisty never called anyone gay in here ) so now twisty calls TWT out again on a thread and is given a 5 day suspension, now everyone is up in arms cause someone did to twist what he does all the time in here to people that , god forbid, dont agree with him......

and they didnt do it in here, they did it on their own magazine, and dont kid yourself,anything you write on the internet is not privalige information...it can be used at anytime, anywhere...

bottom line is Twist wrote his displeasure about a forum sponser's mag on a public forum,and got a public reply (just as if he replied to an editorial in their mag) he didnt like it, was told not to diss a forum sponser in here, did it again and got 5 days off....now everyone is up in arms about their constitutional rights, dissing the forum and their mods and admin and just showing their true colors....This place doesnt need anyone, me included, so dont think cause a few members leave here this place will fall down and die, the members that are leaving have shown their true colors before they left..

again, just 2 cents from the old guy that needs young people to look up to him...
Keep searching for young people to look up to you Jack because you won't get it here from me. IN my eyes, what you wrote is garbage and your excuse to side with TWF and Tuner and bash Twisty because you and him have had it out on here before. Funny, Twisty wrote on here about Tuner and said he thought the mag was getting away from what he hoped it would be and going towards the smut side of things.....so Tuner goes out and says Twisty is Gay. That was real grown up....maybe the kids at Tuner should be looking up to "the old guy" because printing it was a real chicken **** move. The did it on purpose because they knew he could fire back in the magazine so then they would get the last word. I'm sure they sat around pounding their chests and stroking each other after they did this telling each other how cool they were but the reality of it is.......they look like little kids for what they did. This all started because a concerned reader wanted to see the mag head in a different direction and Tuner can't handle being told anything but how great they are. They were only being told what some people like and don't like. They should have been happy that people were voicing their opinion and giving advice and recommendations since they were just starting out, instead they thought they were too cool and had it all figured out themselves and them having their own magazine has completely gone to their head.
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post #13 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-03-2005, 10:02 AM
 
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GsxrJack - I'm sorry but anything you post on this subject cannot be taken seriously as your dislike for Twisty has been apparent from day one, therefore making your opinion on the current subject baised, and as I recall did quite a bit of name calling yourself .

Quote:
Originally Posted by GsxrJack
now everyone is up in arms cause someone did to twist what he does all the time in here to people that , god forbid, dont agree with him......
Actually, as I see it its the other way around - he posted what he doesnt agree with & believes in (allbeit in a shoot from the hip manor as someone said earlier) and then got bashed.
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post #14 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-03-2005, 10:07 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pippi
:nono: :nono: :nono:
GsxrJack - I'm sorry but anything you post on this subject cannot be taken seriously as your dislike for Twisty has been apparent from day one, therefore making your opinion on the current subject baised, and as I recall did quite a bit of name calling yourself .



Actually, as I see it its the other way around - he posted what he doesnt agree with & believes in (allbeit in a shoot from the hip manor as someone said earlier) and then got bashed.
You can think or beleive what you want, but i would feel the same way if it was anyone else and not twist....thats a fact.....

bottom line is no one else would have done it twice, or if they did, wouldnt be up in arms when they got a vacation....
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post #15 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-03-2005, 10:11 AM
 
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TWT printing that is Busch League bs like I said it before. Then they feel the need to slam a reader by taking his opinions off a forum, and essentially calling him gay by linking him to Advocate.com.

TWT = HACKS. Period.

Thank you for leaving it open, Shan.
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post #16 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-03-2005, 10:17 AM
 
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Last, I like WOS. I think a lot of the people probably haven't been on forums too long b/c they are overreacting as a whole, though. Things are what they are. That's not to say if it wasn't my site I wouldn't drop TWT in a heartbeat. There are just way too many good rags to have to put up with that crap. However, I appreciate that they brought SpeedWerks here, and SpeedWerks has gained a longtime customer out of me.

That's the last I'll try to say about this. It is Shan's site and he has done a lot of work to get it where it is, so I don't think it's fair that he's taking so much heat on this. He lets us get away with a lot of things most people wouldn't.
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post #17 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-03-2005, 10:28 AM Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pigface1
Last, I like WOS. I think a lot of the people probably haven't been on forums too long b/c they are overreacting as a whole, though. Things are what they are. That's not to say if it wasn't my site I wouldn't drop TWT in a heartbeat. There are just way too many good rags to have to put up with that crap. However, I appreciate that they brought SpeedWerks here, and SpeedWerks has gained a longtime customer out of me.

That's the last I'll try to say about this. It is Shan's site and he has done a lot of work to get it where it is, so I don't think it's fair that he's taking so much heat on this. He lets us get away with a lot of things most people wouldn't.
My "heat" isn't necessarily directed at him. It's directed TWF in general and Todd for handling it the way he did. I like Shan. I think he does a good job around here and I'd like to see this situation get corrected if that possible.
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post #18 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-03-2005, 10:37 AM
 
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Wow look at everyone getting all upset over the internet....

How this turned into Twisty being banned because of what he said about us is beyond my comprehension, but from looking at the posts from the moderators it is obvious that Twisty had a lot of run-ins with a lot of people that led to his demise.

As far as the post taken from the forum (one of many where Twisty put his two cents in bashing the magazine unnecessarily in threads that had nothing to do with us) - the version in the magazine was edited SEVERELY to be much more polite than Twisty's original post - his version was not nearly as kind. We had a little fun with it, yet still let Twisty give his opinion IN PRINT in our magazine. Oddly enough, that was in circulation almost 2 months ago and nobody seemed to mind it until now. And there wasn't a word about it from Twisty.

Now, 2 months later, Twisty is back to bashing us again, putting his opinion into threads where it is completely uncalled for. I guess if you call that freedom of speech, so be it. I call it bashing. If it was constructive criticism it would be one thing, but attacking our business in public by falsely claiming that we are losing advertisers is not something we will let slide. Apparently the moderators felt the same way.

Take a look for yourself: https://www.twowheelforum.com/showpos...5&postcount=18

Does that post really belong in a thread about looking for a copy of the magazine? Does Twisty's "free speech" require him to post negatively about the magazine every opportunity he gets? And not just now, but BEFORE anything was ever printed in the magazine.

Now, take a deep breath, and remember it's the internet.
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post #19 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-03-2005, 10:41 AM
 
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I'm new here, but I read everyday. Every forum has its rules or "forumocracy". I guess the two things I don't understand (or agree with for that matter) is:

1. A magazine pulling info off a message board that it sponsors but "does not own". I wouldn't believe a magazine would be so hard up for material or so vindictive (read: childish) as to do this.

2. If "bashing" (read: disagreeing) with a "sponsor" is not allowed, I guess we're lucky Kaw, Yam, Suz, and Honda are not sponsors, since we wouldn't be allowed to say anything bad about them. Do we need to look at your advertisers to answer a question a thread of "what's the best performing exhaust for x bike?" are we only allowed to reccommend those that sponsor this site and if we don't we get banned for "sponsor bashing"?

This is a great site, but the "forumocracy" needs to change. I fwe have to worry about our words ending up in print after an argument we have on a message board that it does not "own" and being publicly humilated by that same magazine then this is not the place for me.

It would've been much easier for TWT to print an editorial than to pose the post as a "letter" to the editor. My view is this was absolutely classless, but I know TWF has "nothing" to do with TWT.

I guess my suspension ban or whatever will be coming soon.

Jim
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post #20 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-03-2005, 10:55 AM
 
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i agree
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