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post #1 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-16-2005, 11:33 AM Thread Starter
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Gun Control??

TORRANCE, Calif. - Rev. Jesse Jackson called the shooting of an unarmed driver who had led sheriff's deputies on a chase "a hate crime" over the weekend.


Jackson met with 44-year-old Winston Hayes at a hospital Sunday night. Hayes is recovering from four gunshot wounds.

A videotape of the incident shows deputies firing more than 120 rounds at Hayes' SUV a week ago in Compton. A deputy was also wounded by friendly fire.

The shooting damaged several nearby homes and sparked angry reactions from residents.

Jackson said the shooting violated Hayes' civil rights and called on the FBI to investigate the incident. He also dismissed a statement of remorse that the deputies' lawyer made to Compton residents. Officials said some deputies mistakenly thought Hayes matched the description of a suspect who had fired shots, while others thought he was trying to ram them with his SUV.

120 shots...wound one of their own...damage neighborhood houses...suspect wounded 4 times and recovering?...They ought to take their guns away if that's all the better they can do
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post #2 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-16-2005, 12:39 PM
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post #3 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-16-2005, 12:52 PM
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I would love to say something more about this but I don't believe all the facts are out!

With that said... if the officers feel endangered I believe they have every right to shoot! Heck I wish they would shoot more often...it sure would be better for all the other people around these pieces of *****!!

Rev Jesse Jackson... man I hate that guy! All he ever does is cause trouble... of coarse my I'm if you don't like that, I don't mean to bother anybody!




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post #4 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-16-2005, 01:48 PM
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I don't know all the facts on what caused the officers to decide to open fire, but I CAN say with a fair amount of confidence that these individuals are NOT qualified to be carrying firearms. There was some video footage shown on the news...When THAT many shots are fired from as close as the officers were, AND, when officers create a crossfire for THEMSELVES (Officers stood DIRECTLY ACROSS from one another while firing their weapons)...and the only wounds that the TARGET receives are, basically, flesh wounds...there is a problem.

I also find it very difficult to believe that anything short of the guy climbing out of the vehicle with an assault rifle or attempting to run over one or more Officers with the vehicle could possibly warrant that level of force.

I usually say that Officers are not given enough "slack" in order to do their jobs and have unreasonable restrictions on their use of force to resolve a situation, but in this case, I think there's a lot wrong.

PS: Damnit Todd, you beat me to it :p


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post #5 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-16-2005, 01:56 PM
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I'm with everyone about the facts. You know that Jesse Jackson just likes causing trouble. It's pathetic that all he has to do all day is pray on "race related crimes". Now put the shoe on the other foot. If it happened to a white guy, Jesse would probably not say a word or he'd just have a party.
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post #6 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-16-2005, 02:41 PM
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Guy never even had gun in SUV
Lets face it never would have seen 120 shots fired on white guy in Beverley Hills

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post #7 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-16-2005, 02:44 PM
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For a preacher that gets his mistress pregnant he sure didn't lay low for very long.
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post #8 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-16-2005, 03:31 PM
 
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Firstly, the guy didn't need a gun. He was driving a 4000 lb weapon. The cops ordered him out of his vehicle. He refused and attempted to free. If the suspect moves his vehicle toward a police officer, at that point in time, the officer and any others who will support him are granted the right to use deadly force to stop that threat to their life. Irrespective of any other reason why they need to talk to him, mistaken identity or not.

As to the amount of rounds expended, I do believe that 120 rounds is excessive too. However, what most people don't realise is that handgun rounds (in this case, Compton cops had 9mm I believe) are very innefective against vehicles. It's not like in the movies people. C'mon. The rounds just don't go through windshield glass that easily, and certainly not through metal. Surprised that the guy in the SUV lived? No, I'm not.

If the cop was shot from being in the line of fire, then yes, it probably was bad tactics for the police to have shot in the manner that they did. But it could have been an accident. We don't know yet if the cop who was shot was hit by a direct shot, or by a ricochet off the windshield glass.

But for the person wo said earlier that these cops aren't qualified to carry a gun, [email protected] YOU, you can't say squat with ANY kind of confidence. What qualifies you to say that? Because you SAW IT on the news? Do you wear a badge? Do you even carry a gun for self protection yourself? Have you taken any kind of tactical training? Have YOU ever been in a real shooting? The cops were doing their job, and if you were them in that situation, you wouldn't have done any better. Look, Monday morning quarterback this thing till you start growing hair out of your ears and you'll still get no closer to being accurate about what happened, or what magic YOU would have done had you been there.

The simple fact is, you were all NOT there, and the cops were. I don't see you going out there (in a neighborhood as dangerous as Compton) and risking your life every day to protect and serve the crack heads and prostitutes, and the few law abiding good people in that community. Give the cops a break.....they were doing their job and their very human, phsyiological influences got the better of them. They did what they had to do given the situation. Yes, they made mistakes, but shi# happens.

That's life.

Sorry if I come across as harsh, but I get sick and tired of people throwing armchair comments and critiquing a situation that they have absolutely no idea about!

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post #9 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-16-2005, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetskifast
Guy never even had gun in SUV
Lets face it never would have seen 120 shots fired on white guy in Beverley Hills
True. You'd never see a highspeed chase through Beverly Hills. Compton is a wonderful part of L.A., the police had no need to feel threatened since the guy was just running for the fun of it. Right?

Stirring the pot again, doing what you do best. .talking out of your ass in broken English.

Leading police through a highspeed chase is ridiculous and it puts everyone's life in danger that's on the roads.


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post #10 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-16-2005, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pigface1
True. You'd never see a highspeed chase through Beverly Hills. Compton is a wonderful part of L.A., the police had no need to feel threatened since the guy was just running for the fun of it. Right?

Leading police through a highspeed chase is ridiculous and it puts everyone's life in danger that's on the roads.
Where did you get highspeed chase The guy never went over 30 MPH.
Its called POOR Police training. Noway should their have been 120 shots fired in public. To top it off, only 4 shots hit suspect Keystone cops at its best.
This case will be good for $millions of tax payer money paid out to suspect

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post #11 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-16-2005, 06:08 PM
 
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Jetskifast......PLEASE take the time to read my post above.

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post #12 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-16-2005, 07:20 PM
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Sime: (long) I apologize for striking such a nerve, my comments were not EVER intended to be a generalized statement about my feelings toward LEOs in general. I also agree that my comment about being "qualified" was a bit harsh and kneejerk. Sending a PM on the rest.


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post #13 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-16-2005, 07:34 PM
 
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I wonder if all the tires are still inflated. i bet none of 'em even went for those. Lack of training if they're firing and not taking into consideration crossfire. 120 shots and the guy is still alive is crazy.
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post #14 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-16-2005, 07:34 PM
 
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Guideon, it's all good. Apology accepted. I train cops and have some family and close friends who are cops, and it's really difficult to get across to the public that although cops are trained in many facets of Law Enforcement, carrying and using a gun is just one aspect of the job. People forget that cops are humans too and make mistakes. It's not like cops can practice to be in a real gunfight every day either.

The sad thing is that the general public is too quick to throw stones, but are also too gutless themselves to step up to the plate and do the thankless job of a police officer. I think it should be mandatory that before people attack cops, they should go HERE first.

It's pretty humbling and reminds us (for the most part) of what an incredible job cops actually do!

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post #15 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-16-2005, 07:57 PM
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Good to hear. As I said...more in my PM :p Might be a long one though

Nice link (new bookmark), I hadn't seen that one before. My Dad was an Officer for 30yrs, one of my best friends was an MP in Panama and his Dad was on one of the local Sheriff's Dept.s for the last 35yrs (retired 2yrs ago). My concerns aren't TOTALLY out of my ass....


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post #16 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-16-2005, 08:16 PM
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120 shots!
That's allot with out the suspect firing back.
I know most police use 9mm's.
I own a few and personally know the power or lack there of.

NO; I wasn't there, nor do I know all the facts but, this still seems a little extreme to me.

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post #17 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-16-2005, 09:30 PM
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Thats why the choppers should have a rockets on them, lock them in and toast the fackers from the sky. The guy was scum and was be treated as such. If he would have stopped like the officer said he would have been just fine. Instead he desided to try flee and got lead bumped in he arse, Im sure thats not going to be the only bumped in him
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post #18 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-16-2005, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sime
Jetskifast......PLEASE take the time to read my post above.
Like any profession you have bad people and good people. Its known in Police circles working crap area's such as Compton. Cops get more OT and retire on full questionable disability pensions before 40's. These second rate cops are in for the short term, most take attude its us against them. My gut feeling is one cop jumped the gun, everybody else joined in. Training problem?
Sime, since you saw video and train cops do you feel cops made every effort to avoid shooting 120 rounds on public street?

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post #19 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-17-2005, 05:35 AM
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Good post and link Sime!

Here's a quote from that site..

Quote:
There have been 53 line-of-duty deaths in 2005 and 17,591 total.
That's just wrong!




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post #20 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-17-2005, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sime
Jetskifast......PLEASE take the time to read my post above.
It won't ever happen, he's on here for one reason and one reason only. . he's a troll. And that's why he gets banned on other forums he's active on.

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