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post #1 of 44 (permalink) Old 06-10-2005, 01:42 PM Thread Starter
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Buy American vs. Import

Long reading (which menas Gas dont bother posting its too long!)

In Defense of General Motors
Our Buy American Mention of the Week!
By Roger Simmermaker

May 7, 2005

Defense, defense, defense. Thatís all that General Motors, and Detroit in general, can play these days. Many American car and truck buyers and many of those in the media, who write about their buying habits, should know better than to spew their venom at GM for their recent financial troubles.
It might be different if the reasons that GM continues to lose market share werenít largely beyond their control, but they are. As an increasing number of Americans spend their money on and drive around in Toyotas and Hondas, the answer to the question "Why doesnít GM have the money to build a car more to my liking?" seems to evade them.


As if the impending health care crisis in America was no clue at all, some
even bring up the fact that GM spends over $1,500 per automobile just to provide health care to their employees, retirees and their dependents. By comparison, Toyota and Honda spend only a few hundred dollars per
automobile, mainly because GM has been operating in the United States since the invention of the automobile and Toyota, for instance, only built their first plant here in 1987. Yet they still accuse that GM is "living in thepast" even though Cadillac now outsells Mercedes, The Chevy Impala beat theToyota Camry in initial quality and Consumer Reports detailed how Buick now beats BMW in reliability.


But in these times where low-wage Wal-Mart has now replaced high-wage
General Motors as the number one employer in the U.S., most Americans get a pass for not having the time to dig deeply enough to understand what is really going on since a large portion of America is working longer hours for lower wages and is just trying to put in enough time at work to make ends meet. It may seem that your car-buying decision would have no effect on your personal prosperity or that of your country, but it does.

It really does matter if you buy an American-made Chevrolet instead of an American-made Toyota. When you buy an American-made Chevy, you not only support more American workers, but also American investors, owners and stockholders. When you buy an American-made Toyota, you may help your Uncle Bob if heís on Toyotaís payroll, but youíre hurting Uncle Sam since American companies pay about three times as many taxes to the U.S. Treasury compared to foreign-owned companies. Thatís something to think about the next time you hear we have to cut benefits or raise the retirement age simply because the U.S. Treasury doesnít have enough funds to meet its obligations to Social Security or other benefit programs.

General Motors doesnít have enough money to meet its obligations either.
And itís for the very honorable reason that they have promised adequate
health care and pensions to their workers who gave their lives to a company that has in turn supported so many American livelihoods for so long. If we stop buying GM products, we de-fund American retirees and prevent them from contributing to the American economy. Sure, you have a choice in buying a foreign car over an American one, but if you buy the foreign car, you will likely cause a retiree to make a choice between food and medicine. That very choice is a daily one for many senior citizens in this country right now.

Think itís not possible? Think again. The Pension Benefit Guaranty
Corporation (PBGC) has already taken over several pensions from failed
American companies in the steel and airline industries and beyond. When
these companies declare bankruptcy and a failure to meet their obligations, this government-funded agency - which is also running in the red Ė takes over and gives seniors roughly half of what they were promised by the now bankrupt company.


This results in a hidden cost to taxpayers since any shortfall in
government revenue must be made up eventually in higher taxes or benefit
cuts or both. So there you have it. Failure to find a GM (or other
American) automobile you can stand will negatively affect your standard of
living in one way or another. And you thought that since you didnít work in
the car industry it didnít affect you. Think again.

The Detroit News recently published the facts, daring to go against the
deceiving "foreign cars are built there and American cars are built there"
rhetoric that implies it makes no difference if you buy an American-made
Honda instead of an American-made Pontiac. The newspaper reported that American and foreign automakers alike were playing the "Made in USA Card" to attract buyers. And you thought consumers didnít care. Poll after poll has shown Americans are even willing to pay more to buy American, let alone when quality and price are similar or equal. Most Americans advocate fair play and equality but eventually they will find out - possibly the hard way that either of these attributes apply in the automobile marketplace unless those Americans that should know better start buying American cars again.

Iím not asking or expecting the die-hard import buyer crowd to stop their
silly griping and buy American. GMís future doesnít depend on them. It
depends on those Americans that really should know better.

As the Detroit News article boldly pointed out, GM has 82 major plants in the United States, while Toyota, Honda and Nissan combined have only 24. GM has more American salaried workers than Toyota has total American workers. With 194,000 employees in America, even after hard times, General Motors still employs six times as many Americans as Toyota, seven times as many as Honda, and 12 times as many as Nissan. As Business Week pointed out in 2002 (the last data I have seen on the subject), each auto-assembly job created by an American company also creates 6.9 other American jobs, where each auto-assembly job created by a foreign company creates only 5.5 other American jobs. This is true simply because American automobile companies get more of their parts from America.

And what about those foreign transplant factories? A 1995 United Auto
Workers study concluded that these foreign automobile companies operating in the United States caused at least 500,000 Americans to lose their jobs
.
I would hate to think of what that total is today.

The new May 9, 2005 issue of Business Week details how GM contributes to the pockets of their assembly workers to the tune of $8.7 billion a year and either directly or indirectly supports the employment of 900,000 Americans. Business Week also claims it is "undeniable" that what is bad for GM is bad for America, pointing to a 54-day strike in 1998 that cut that quarterís economic growth for the entire country a whole percentage point.

Many point to bad management decisions in the past to justify their
reasoning for not supporting GM, claiming it is it "widely known" that they
made horrible cars in the 1970ís. Its amazing people who werenít even
driving age in the 1970ís (this author wasnít) want to penalize GM for
mismanagement as they overlook any mismanagement by other car companies they anxiously spend their money with instead. I have never heard anyone vehemently refuse to buy a Nissan since they almost went bankrupt in the late 1990ís. Nor do I hear people planning to penalize Japanese car makers for the (widely known) junk they imported in the 1960ís.

In 1999, the Wall Street Journal reported Nissan lost millions of dollars
in five of the last six years. Nissanís debt stood between $22 billion and
$30 billion, which dwarfed that of any other auto maker. The Wall Street Journal, which is no huge supporter of GM, claimed Nissan would be bankrupt if it happened to be American company.

The claim that GM made inferior cars in the 1970?s is suspect to me anyway, not because of my patriotic motivation, but because of my personal experience. The 1976 Riviera I owned was outstanding as far as quality and longevity was concerned, and 1976 is right in the middle of the supposed quality-challenged decade for American cars. An Auto Week magazine article even call it a "boat with no tail" in a piece they did about the history of the Riviera.

Shortly after the car passed 200,000 miles, I drove it from Florida to
Illinois and back to demonstrate to some skeptical friends that the car
would make it up, down and through the Smokey Mountains of Tennessee just fine, as I was getting my own share of comments about how terrible American cars supposedly were. The car had over 250,000 miles before I had it hauled off to the junkyard, but not before a co-worker bought the engine for his airboat. The engine was so quiet no one knew (by listening) that I warmed it up for 5-10 minutes before I drove home from work as my co-workers walked past it in the parking lot to get in their own cars to drive home. People would walk by my ‚??76 Riviera, stop for a second, and ask me "Is that car running?" The body had rusted out by the late 1990s, but the car never had the advantage of a garage to protect it from the Florida sun and Atlantic Oceanís salty air.

General Motors spent $5.2 billion on health care for their workers and
retirees in 2004. The 2005 figure will be higher. The figure for Toyota,
for instance, is certainly less since they didnít build their first
American factory until 1987. The Georgetown, KY factory, which assembles the Toyota Camry, was built with Japanese steel by a Japanese steel company. Toyota was given 1,500 of free land. To attract this Japanese company to America, we even established a "special trade zone" so they could import parts duty-free from Japan. Financing was handled by Mitsui Bank of Japan. Total federal, state and local tax incentives (read giveaways) reached $100 million - courtesy of your tax dollars and mine.

These are some of the hidden costs few think about when selecting their
next car. Before the first Toyota in American was ever assembled, the
American steel industry, parts industry and finance industry took it on the chin. American tax obligations were also raised to boot. Todayís Camry has a 55% domestic parts content, which is down from 75% just a few years earlier. American alternatives like the Chevy Impala has a 98% domestic parts content and the aging Ford Taurus, which used to be the number one selling car in America before the Camry took the top spot, has a 95% domestic parts content.

In the end, it doesnít matter how you slice it. General Motors pays more
taxes, employs more workers, has more domestic plants, supports more
families, retirees and their dependents, and has higher overall domestic
parts content than the foreign competition - hands down. American quality
is on the rise. Efficiency has increased. GM kept America rolling by
donating millions of dollars in cash and vehicles in the aftermath of
September 11, 2001. Where was the foreign competition in Americaís time of need? They were busy reaping in record profits and sending them home to reward foreign owners at the expense of an American company that built the foundation of prosperity that America as a whole enjoys.

Profits are the lifeblood of any successful company or economy. General
Motors makes only a few hundred dollars of profit per vehicle compared to over a thousand dollars for their foreign rivals because GM supports such a wide and diverse number of Americans. Theyíve shown their loyalty to America by extending 0% financing for several years, and through their history theyíve done more good for America than any foreign car company ever dreamed of doing. Itís time for America to show their loyalty to an American company whose own increased prosperity will result in greater American prosperity as well.

So if you want General Motors to get more aggressive and on the offensive in terms of marketing, bolder car designs, etc., stop spewing your venom at them, which makes them constantly play defense instead. Itís unfair, unwarranted, and unproductive. GM wants to keep America rolling - as we all should - so letís let it and make it happen.

How Americans Can Buy American
Post Office Box 780839
Orlando, Florida 32878-0839

Never under estimate 15 beers, a little enlightenment, and the power of Rob Base and DJ Easy Rock ~Earl
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post #2 of 44 (permalink) Old 06-10-2005, 01:48 PM
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Don't Ever Post Anything That Long Again!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm Not Reading It.

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post #3 of 44 (permalink) Old 06-10-2005, 01:53 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chev
Don't Ever Post Anything That Long Again!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm Not Reading It.
I started reading that at 10am and finished a little bit ago. Most reading I have done since....the 2nd grade. I hate reeding!

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post #4 of 44 (permalink) Old 06-10-2005, 01:57 PM
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i seen it and just said NO im not reading it. i havent read anyhting that long since i think 9th grade. lol

GO GREEN OR GO HOME
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post #5 of 44 (permalink) Old 06-10-2005, 02:04 PM
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"defense, defense, defense" is as far as i got...then got bored

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post #6 of 44 (permalink) Old 06-10-2005, 02:06 PM
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OK..........I read it.. had to. I live and breath that industry. Very good article Ace.

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post #7 of 44 (permalink) Old 06-10-2005, 02:09 PM Thread Starter
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Well I could post the "picture book" version. LOL

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post #8 of 44 (permalink) Old 06-10-2005, 02:19 PM
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I tried to read it all and....Nope too long...than I tried to skim over it...and Nope it's too Long...then I tried to just get the good points...Nope Still too long...anybody have the Cliff notes on this...
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post #9 of 44 (permalink) Old 06-10-2005, 02:23 PM
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Yes....when GM is hurting, so is the American economy. Also, the asian companies get huge tax breaks and americans get screwed. Buy a car from an asian company even if built in a plant here, still hurts the US over buying american because the asian company has it's roots elsewhere. Basically, Americans need to get back to buying American.

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post #10 of 44 (permalink) Old 06-10-2005, 02:28 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chev
Yes....when GM is hurting, so is the American economy. Also, the asian companies get huge tax breaks and americans get screwed. Buy a car from an asian company even if built in a plant here, still hurts the US over buying american because the asian company has it's roots elsewhere. Basically, Americans need to get back to buying American.
Adding to that the Foreign "Domestic Imports" get tax breaks as well. Which hurts our US economy. Now I am not all for bashing the imports because companies like Toyota dont want to see GM fall nor hurt our economy. Toyota has plans to hiek their prices on new US models as a way to help the struggeling American automakers. All in to give the Big 3 "time so they can compete".
Although some critics claim this is manipulative and perhaps illegal.

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post #11 of 44 (permalink) Old 06-10-2005, 02:31 PM
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No they don't. Toyota was asked to hike them up to american prices so they wouldn't kill the US companies and Toyota said.......TOOO BAD!!!!

I heard they weren't going to because they knew it would screw over the American Big 3

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post #12 of 44 (permalink) Old 06-10-2005, 02:35 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chev
No they don't. Toyota was asked to hike them up to american prices so they wouldn't kill the US companies and Toyota said.......TOOO BAD!!!!

I heard they weren't going to because they knew it would screw over the American Big 3
Dont shoot the monkey! LOL I read that this morning in the issue of Auto Beat.

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post #13 of 44 (permalink) Old 06-10-2005, 02:37 PM
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OK.......then maybe they went back on it or it was a rumor. All the auto's in the US work together on pricing so they all stay competitive anyway and I think Toyota was asked to do the same.

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post #14 of 44 (permalink) Old 06-10-2005, 02:47 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chev
OK.......then maybe they went back on it or it was a rumor. All the auto's in the US work together on pricing so they all stay competitive anyway and I think Toyota was asked to do the same.
Let me rephrase. I looked at dates of articles I printed, had them in wrong order. Yesterday Toyota said they were going to. Now today they claim there has yet to be a decision and still undecided. Their fear is that a weak US aoto industry would spark trade problems for Japan, whos car and truck sales continue to gain volume share in the US.

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post #15 of 44 (permalink) Old 06-10-2005, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chev
Yes....when GM is hurting, so is the American economy. Also, the asian companies get huge tax breaks and americans get screwed. Buy a car from an asian company even if built in a plant here, still hurts the US over buying american because the asian company has it's roots elsewhere. Basically, Americans need to get back to buying American.

But if you buy american your ***** brakesdown, its way to expensive, and I hate unions.

I buy Jap. Their sh1t works right, it runs forever, and resale value is much better.

The japs are so streamlined in the operations, they know were every penny is spent. The big 3 were throwing money away and now 2 of them are hurting. It took Dodge being bought by the Germans for them to make money. The americans need to dump the unions, they are uneducted monkeys who just tighten the same bolts everyday and want to paid way over what they should be.

I hate unions, there is no need for them into todays day and age.
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post #16 of 44 (permalink) Old 06-10-2005, 07:30 PM
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Mr. Simmermaker just HAD to throw this in to trivialise, in his mind, tuner dissenters.

"Iím not asking or expecting the die-hard import buyer crowd to stop their
silly griping and buy American. GMís future doesnít depend on them. It
depends on those Americans that really should know better.
"

According to the article it does depend on them just as much as everyone else the article is addressed to. And this blurb contradicts the desired effect of this article. Except for this horrid afterthought paragraph of bias and condesention.... good article all in all.

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post #17 of 44 (permalink) Old 06-10-2005, 11:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Low
I tried to read it all and....Nope too long...than I tried to skim over it...and Nope it's too Long...then I tried to just get the good points...Nope Still too long...anybody have the Cliff notes on this...
Way too many words there!

I'm with ya on the unions thing Twisty. But I buy american branded cars/trucks because I want to support my family that work for them. Plus I get the discounts as well.

So Ace, where is that picture version?




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post #18 of 44 (permalink) Old 06-11-2005, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chev
Yes....when GM is hurting, so is the American economy. Also, the asian companies get huge tax breaks and americans get screwed. Buy a car from an asian company even if built in a plant here, still hurts the US over buying american because the asian company has it's roots elsewhere. Basically, Americans need to get back to buying American.

OK, so sell your sportbike and buy a HD. They make the Street Rod now...

I have always owned/bought american cars. I have problems with the arrogance GM has exhibited the last few years. The price of their cars has nothing to do with costs of production. They have way overpriced their cars and I can't afford them. I could care less about winning an initial quality contest...Show me that Malibu 5 years and 150K miles later and let me see the quality. When I bought my Saturn for M...I was told the same tired line about quality and value and resale value...My neighbor bought a Honda that was within 800 dollars of the Saturn. He put almost the same mileage on his Honda, but was offered 2K more trade-in than my Saturn, by the Chevy dealer. It seems that Honda will turn quicker, for more $ on his used lot then my Saturn. So GM will have to do a whole lot more for me, if they want my money...
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post #19 of 44 (permalink) Old 06-12-2005, 07:06 AM
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When the big 3 puts a 10 year 100,000 mile warranty on their cars across the board, I'll consider one. In the last 10 years, every American car I have owned has had to have some type of major surgery before 100K. I maintain my vehicles pretty well and don't want this hassle. If they won't stand behind their products like the Foreign manufacturers, I don't want them. I would really prefer to buy US but I can't afford to make payments on and major repairs on a vehicle at the same time. A local Toyota garage has a display with over 200 vehicles they have sold that have over 200K on the odometer. I have never seen anything like that in any American dealers anywhere. Also, all the American cars I have owned have creaked and squeaked and rattled by 60K. I had a 85 Nissan 4X4 that had 175K on it and made almost no noise at all even when bouncing through the woods. I'm pretty disgusted with American quality in their vehicles. Hope it gets better soon!
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post #20 of 44 (permalink) Old 06-12-2005, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GsxrJack
"defense, defense, defense" is as far as i got...then got bored
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