Any see what was supposed to be a F1 "race"? - TwoWheelForum: Motorcycle and Sportbike forums
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post #1 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-20-2005, 12:58 AM Thread Starter
 
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Any see what was supposed to be a F1 "race"?

MOTOR RACING: F1 FOOT IN THE GRAVE
FIASCO IN INDIANAPOLIS USA Grand Prix: Schumacher wins 6-car farce Sport's American future in jeopardy
Byron Young Reports From Indianapolis


Even the man who done the most for Formula One, the world's richest promoter Bernie Ecclestone admitted the future was bleak after the farce served up here in Indianapolis yesterday.

He said: "I feel sorry for the public. The future for Formula One and Michelin in the USA is not good."

Only six cars took the start after 14 drivers boycotted the ninth round of the world championship on the orders of their teams in a row over tyre safety.

David Coulthard said: "This is going to leave a long-lasting bitter taste in people's mouths. I'm embarrassed.

"The fact is that mature adults were not able to put on a show for everybody.

"This is a tragedy for the sport I can't put into words how damaging this is for Formula One - it has to thrown its future here into doubt."

Irate fans booed and started to walk out as Michael Schumacher and Rubens Barrichello raced tailenders Minardi and Jordan. Others threw drinks cans on the circuit in disgust. The 14 Michelin runners had refused to take the start because they were not allowed to use new tyres flown in from France overnight.
The chain of events had been triggered when Ralf Schumacher's rear tyre blew at 180mph in practice and he was thrown into the concrete wall for the second time in two years.

Team-mate Ricardo Zonta had a blow-out and other drivers reported tyre problems.
Heading into the race tyre makers Michelin warned they could not guarantee it would not happen again.
And team bosses said the lives of drivers, team bosses and thousands of fans in the packed grandstands would be at risk. After 24 hours of desperate diplomacy behind the scenes a compromise solution of a chicane in the banking was also rejected by the FIA and Ferrari an hour before the start.

Against a background of animosity between the teams and FIA president Max Mosley this was more about politics than a race. The Michelin runners blinded themselves to the reality their tyre supplier had got it wrong and there was no reason they would benefit or their Bridgestone rivals should not benefit.

Only two days earlier Ecclestone had criticised the circuit promoter for not doing enough to push Formula One in America. Now there is nothing to push.

Coulthard added: "Michelin ****** up but the FIA then had it in their hands to find a solution.
"They could have used the safety issue. Michelin could have been penalised and Bridgestone would have got the points but at least we would have had a race. The most important people - the fans - have been forgotten."
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post #2 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-20-2005, 02:29 AM
 
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Glad I wasn't here to see it.
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post #3 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-20-2005, 09:45 AM
 
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I was completely floored when I got home last night and Roach showed that race to me. Shame on Michelin!

--Laura
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post #4 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-20-2005, 10:05 AM
 
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Well, I wouldn't say this is the fault of Michelin. They were looking out for the safety of drivers, as were the teams. I think this was the fault of FIA. Hopefully, something will be done to fix this fiasco and keep F1 here, but it won't be easy to change the views of the fans.
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post #5 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-20-2005, 11:11 AM
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So there was tire defect... the racers wanted new tires...they flew some in... but the people putting on the race wouldn't let them use the new tires. So they said "F this were out". Is that the basic jist?




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post #6 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-20-2005, 11:19 AM Thread Starter
 
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Use new tires or slow down a corner with a chicane. FIA and Farrari (on Bridgestone) said "no" to both. Michelin was unprepared and to do that in F1 is a huge oversight. FIM didnt want to help. What i dont get is if the tires fail, why would one corner be the diffrence?
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post #7 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-20-2005, 11:23 AM
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I'm confused... but that's ok...you don't sound to confident either on it.... so one corner is bad on the old tires?




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post #8 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-20-2005, 11:25 AM Thread Starter
 
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Insult to injury F1 prez on Danica P.

This was taken a few days before F1 Indy. I doubt F1 will be missed

F1 boss likens Danica to 'domestic appliance'
FOXSports.com

Danica Patrick has surged onto the open-wheel racing world, but that might not be sitting well with the old-school boss of Formula One racing.

Formula One is getting its most high-profile United States presence with the U.S. Grand Prix at Indianapolis Motor Speedway this weekend, but Formula One chief Bernie Ecclestone doesn't seem to be too crazy about Patrick joining her male competitors on the track, despite her recent Indy 500 success.
"She did a good job, didn't she? Super. Didn't think she'd be able to make it like that," Ecclestone told a gathering of reporters about Patrick's Indy 500 finish.

"You know, I've got one of these wonderful ideas that women should be all dressed in white like all the other domestic appliances," Ecclestone added.
Ecclestone has controlled Formula One for 25 years, amassing a fortune estimated at $3.7 billion. He has a holding company which operates some of F1's commercial ventures, ranging from television rights to sponsorships.

But nine of the F1's 10 teams are in dispute with Eccletone and others over the running of the sport and have threatened to start their own series in 2008. Only Ferrari has signed to stay with Ecclestone after the 2007 season.
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post #9 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-20-2005, 11:28 AM
 
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My guess is (being unfamiliar with the track) that the chicane would slow the cars down in the area of highest speed. Much like they did at Sears Point and other tracks for cars and or bikes. Daytona is an excellent example of this. This would prevent, hopefully, the tires reaching the temperatures that the manufacturer felt was the unsafe point. Just my thought. But they were right, no one thought about the fans and the possible ramifications to the sport.
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post #10 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-20-2005, 11:32 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JK_DILLA
This was taken a few days before F1 Indy. I doubt F1 will be missed

F1 boss likens Danica to 'domestic appliance'
FOXSports.com

Danica Patrick has surged onto the open-wheel racing world, but that might not be sitting well with the old-school boss of Formula One racing.

Formula One is getting its most high-profile United States presence with the U.S. Grand Prix at Indianapolis Motor Speedway this weekend, but Formula One chief Bernie Ecclestone doesn't seem to be too crazy about Patrick joining her male competitors on the track, despite her recent Indy 500 success.
"She did a good job, didn't she? Super. Didn't think she'd be able to make it like that," Ecclestone told a gathering of reporters about Patrick's Indy 500 finish.

"You know, I've got one of these wonderful ideas that women should be all dressed in white like all the other domestic appliances," Ecclestone added.
Ecclestone has controlled Formula One for 25 years, amassing a fortune estimated at $3.7 billion. He has a holding company which operates some of F1's commercial ventures, ranging from television rights to sponsorships.

But nine of the F1's 10 teams are in dispute with Eccletone and others over the running of the sport and have threatened to start their own series in 2008. Only Ferrari has signed to stay with Ecclestone after the 2007 season.
If I thought like this guy, I'd have said, "Get back in that kitchen and cook my some dinner, biatch!" instead of, "Sweet! When?" when my wife said she was thinking of taking a motorcycle coarse.

Come on Bernie, get with the program
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post #11 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-20-2005, 11:32 AM
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Either way it sounds like some sextist comments are flying!




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post #12 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-20-2005, 12:21 PM
 
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TON of really bad information here.

#1 - Bernie's comment about Danika is humor taken out of context - it's half of what he said. Bernie has been a long time supporter of Danika, personally and professionally.

#2: Michelin and their teams are the cause of the whole thing. NOT the FIA. The FIA simply enforced their rules. Period. Which they should have. If it had been a Bridgestone problem (as han been the case several times this year), you would have seen 7 Michelin teams saying "Sorry for your luck, see you in France".

Michelin had the same belt separation problem last year - this is what caused Ralph to hit the wall and be seriously injured, missing several races. Even with this, they chose NOT to send anyone to the pre-USGP tire selection test, except for two third string drivers from two teams. They had an opportunity to test and change their tire design. They chose not to.

They showed up with tires that could not go the race distance. They flew in the SAME tires, thinking the ones they had were a bad batch - at 5am Sunday they told the teams the new tires would have the same problem.

Think about this for a minute - you show up at a race track, qualify, then ask that the sanctioning body change the race track to suit your needs. And you expect this to happen?? When the other tire company has no such problem??

*** The FIA told Michelin in a letter that they could pit their cars and change tires throughout the race in the name of safety. Michelin and their teams declined this option and boycotted the race ***.

So ... They brought the wrong tires (because they didn't test), and were given a safety option that wouldn't make them competative (against Bridgestone who did bring the right tires), so they stomped their feet and held their breath, then picked up their toys and went home.

Screw Michelin. It was a terrible day all around, but I applaud the FIA for not bending to a manufacturer trying to dictate the rules. Michelin did have options, just not the ones they wanted.

Just my opinion, of course
- Roach
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post #13 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-20-2005, 12:36 PM
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Good info there... and with all this junk flying around I want to badge this under my new favorite saying...

"Welcome to the gayness!"



*Not at somebody besides all these people messin up a good show for the fans!




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post #14 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-20-2005, 12:36 PM
 
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The FIA has issued a Summons to all the Michelin teams, and also a statement clarifying their position (Pretty much reads like what my opinion says above about changing the rules/track for one manufacturer)

http://www.formula1.com/race/news/3209/740.html

- Roach
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post #15 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-20-2005, 12:47 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gas Man
*Not at somebody besides all these people messin up a good show for the fans!
And that's the part that pisses me off. I'm a huge fan of F1. There is a lot of BS crap going on right now with some of the teams (guess which) wanting to wrestle control of F1 away from the FIA and Bernie E for various reasons (rules and $$ for the most part).

That's all well and good, but when it spills out onto the street, so to speak, and the fans are the ones paying for it ... it really pisses me off. Thankfully I didn't go to Indy this year - I would have been LIVID.

There was a lot more going on this weekend besides "unsafe tires".

- Roach
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post #16 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-20-2005, 01:10 PM Thread Starter
 
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Ive read several articles by several outlets and most steer you towards the FIA being the bad guy, this is just a slant put on by the writers then?
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post #17 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-20-2005, 03:28 PM
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I can understand Speed... I'm sure the fans were pissed to see 14 less racers out there. I mean they paid good money for their seats to see a full blown race!! I'd be pissed!




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post #18 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-20-2005, 04:01 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JK_DILLA
Ive read several articles by several outlets and most steer you towards the FIA being the bad guy, this is just a slant put on by the writers then?
That's the slant that I've seen as well. But I completely understand Brian's opinion and feel that it makes a LOT of sense.
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post #19 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-20-2005, 06:11 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JK_DILLA
Ive read several articles by several outlets and most steer you towards the FIA being the bad guy, this is just a slant put on by the writers then?
No idea, I only know what the facts are, and that's that the FIA enfored the rules as they are in their rule book. Last time I looked, everyone gets a copy at the beginning of the year. If you're not going to enforce rules, there's no reason to have them.

Again, in my opinion, this was a political power-play gone seriously egg-shaped. They expected the FIA to cave in to their demands. If you watch the race, the Michelin drivers even stayed in the cars after they started the race ... thinking it would be stopped before lap 2 was completed (for it to be an official race start, they have to complete 2 laps). After 2 laps, they all got out of their cars with looks of disbelief.

If you believe that Michelin, a company that spends millions on developing F1 and other race tires, came to Indy (after racing there 5 times before) with no clue about the track surface and features ... then I have a bridge for sale in Manhatten you might find very attractive

- Roach
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post #20 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-20-2005, 06:50 PM
 
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Letter from Charlie Whiting, the FIA Formula One Race Director, in reply to above letter from Representatives of Michelin:

19 June, 2005

Dear Mr Dupasquier,
Dear Mr Shorrock,

We have received your letter of 18 June.

We are very surprised that this difficulty has arisen. As you know, each team is allowed to bring two different types of tyre to an event so as to ensure that a back-up (usually of lower performance) is available should problems occur. It is hard to understand why you have not supplied your teams with such a tyre given your years of experience at Indianapolis.

That the teams you supply are not in possession of such a tyre will also be a matter for the FIA to consider in due course under Article 151c of the International Sporting Code.

No doubt you will inform your teams what is the maximum safe speed for their cars in Turn 13. We will remind them of the need to follow your advice for safety reasons. We will also ask them to ensure their cars do not obstruct other competitors.

Some of the teams have raised with us the possibility of running a tyre which was not used in qualifying. We have told them this would be a breach of the rules to be considered by the stewards. We believe the penalty would not be exclusion but would have to be heavy enough to ensure that no team was tempted to use qualifying tyres in the future.

Another possibility would be for the relevant teams repeatedly to change the affected tyre during the race (we understand you have told your teams the left rear is safe for a maximum of ten laps at full speed). If the technical delegate and the stewards were satisfied that each change was made because the tyre would otherwise fail (thus for genuine safety reasons) and that the relevant team were not gaining an advantage, there would be no penalty. If this meant using tyres additional to a teams’ allocation, the stewards would consider all the circumstances in deciding what penalty, if any, to apply.

Finally, it has been suggested that a chicane should be laid out in Turn 13. I am sure you will appreciate that this is out of the question. To change the course in order to help some of the teams with a performance problem caused by their failure to bring suitable equipment to the race would be a breach of the rules and grossly unfair to those teams which have come to Indianapolis with the correct tyres.

Yours sincerely,

Charlie Whiting
FIA Formula One Race Director

cc: Bernie Ecclestone
Ron Dennis (West McLaren-Mercedes)
Flavio Briatore (Mild Seven Renault F1)
Frank Williams (BMW WilliamsF1 Team)
Peter Sauber (Sauber Petronas)
Christian Horner (Red Bull Racing)
Nick Fry (B-A-R Honda)
John Howett (Panasonic Toyota Racing)
Jean Todt (Scuderia Ferrari)
Colin Kolles (Jordan Grand Prix)
Paul Stoddart (Minardi F1 Team)

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