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post #1 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-28-2005, 06:35 AM Thread Starter
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Gas Prices

I just heard on the news that oil has hit $60 a barrel. How is that possible seeing how we now are in control of Iraqi oil? Also, Maybe Gas Man can answer this, but how bad are the prices at the pump gonna get? I'm curious because I commute 45 miles to work each way. Bush, Just my


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post #2 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-28-2005, 08:34 AM
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I also read that they were plannjing on increasing production to an additional 500,000 barrels a day (23-25 million/ day) in order to help lower the fuel costs. Yet all we continue to see is an increase in costs of gas.
I remember the good ol days when it was $0.79/ gallon (and that ewas even considered high then) LOL
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post #3 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-28-2005, 10:49 AM
 
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From my understanding, and its not factual until somebody confirms or corrects me, it is OPEC that seems to have control of the gas pricing. Maybe not directly, but I hear they are the cause of the increase in prices.
Also, Mind you, its summer and at least on the west side of the country, prices go up due to a different mixture to help reduce pollutants. I also hear OPEC really cant be governed or told what to do. Therefore, it doesnt matter how much oil we have, if they see that the people are paying $60.00 a barrel, they will charge $60.00 a barrel to maximize profit.

Thats my understanding of the gas price increase. But somebody correct me if Im wrong (which I probably am and thats ok, I would like to know whats the real deal).
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post #4 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-28-2005, 12:30 PM
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I'm not sure about the OPEC angle on it. However, you must understand that the big oil companies are going to charge you more money at the pump now to cover themselves in the future. It's called future pricing.

Yes, it is summer time and the entire nation has to use lower RVP (Ried Vapor Rating) gasoline. Yes it is for pollution control.

Unfortuanately, I don't see any help in the future for gas prices. At this point, all we can do is hope that it will level out and stop going up.

For the record I HATE the currect gas prices...but let me say something about it.

You are paying $2.25 - $3.00 for a gallon of gas. Let's look at all the people that touch that gallon to get it to you.
-crude oil drilling
-bardge to haul it to land
-unload it into a storage tank
-pipeline it to a refinery
-REFINE IT (biggest cost)
-pipeline it to another tank farm
-haul it in a semi-truck to your gas station(distributors)
-put it in the gas station tanks
-you pump it into your car

Now understand that these are all different companies. Rarely is any part of that one company. So each company makes money on the process.

OK OK... how much do you pay for a 20oz water? $1.29 Do the math!

$1.29 for 20 oz (128 oz in a gallon)
x 6.4 (6.4 20oz units in a gallon)
===$8.25 for a gallon of water!

And the only thing that is needed for that is
-pump it out of the ground or of a stream or whatever
-filter it
-bottle it
-ship it
-sell it

NO refining or piping or anything. The way it comes out of the ground is the same way you drink it!

Just a different view on the subject!




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post #5 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-28-2005, 12:31 PM
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No too mention that the gasoline is taxed like crazy and water is not!




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post #6 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-28-2005, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gas Man
I'm not sure about the OPEC angle on it. However, you must understand that the big oil companies are going to charge you more money at the pump now to cover themselves in the future. It's called future pricing.

Yes, it is summer time and the entire nation has to use lower RVP (Ried Vapor Rating) gasoline. Yes it is for pollution control.

Unfortuanately, I don't see any help in the future for gas prices. At this point, all we can do is hope that it will level out and stop going up.

For the record I HATE the currect gas prices...but let me say something about it.

You are paying $2.25 - $3.00 for a gallon of gas. Let's look at all the people that touch that gallon to get it to you.
-crude oil drilling
-bardge to haul it to land
-unload it into a storage tank
-pipeline it to a refinery
-REFINE IT (biggest cost)
-pipeline it to another tank farm
-haul it in a semi-truck to your gas station(distributors)
-put it in the gas station tanks
-you pump it into your car

Now understand that these are all different companies. Rarely is any part of that one company. So each company makes money on the process.

OK OK... how much do you pay for a 20oz water? $1.29 Do the math!

$1.29 for 20 oz (128 oz in a gallon)
x 6.4 (6.4 20oz units in a gallon)
===$8.25 for a gallon of water!

And the only thing that is needed for that is
-pump it out of the ground or of a stream or whatever
-filter it
-bottle it
-ship it
-sell it

NO refining or piping or anything. The way it comes out of the ground is the same way you drink it!

Just a different view on the subject!

This is an understandable point. However, we all know there are processes and step involved. Much like the processing of automotive components. But in automotive they are constantly refining their manufacturing process to lower costs. Reduce waste, material, etc, this in turn helps create a lower cost to the customer. But apparently the oil industry does not strive for such reduction, they just do it the same ol way and continually increase cost to the bottom line comsumer. Must be revenge for the hybrids coming out that just improve the gas mileage/ gallon. Obviously its a threat if the cars we drive use less gas, the oil tycoons then make pennies less too. I dont care how you look at it, the oil industry does not seem to do much to solve a problem at hand. They just take it from our pockets.
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post #7 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-28-2005, 12:49 PM
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You can easily do such comparisons. The oil companies (especially the pipelines) try to reduce costs by reducing such expenses cause by safety concerns. Limiting accidents, leaks, and vechicle accidents.

We are also eliminating jobs with computers and other electronic components.

Can somebody give me a comparison on how much the cost of a car has gone up in the past 30 years versus how much gasoline has went up in the last 30 years....




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post #8 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-28-2005, 12:55 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gas Man
Yes, it is summer time and the entire nation has to use lower RVP (Ried Vapor Rating) gasoline. Yes it is for pollution control.
yessssssss! I was right on something! To be honest, I really dont know what OPEC actually does. I just heard it from an intellectual individual and wanted to know if it was true or just a theory of his.


Also, I agree with Ace that it is getting out of hand. And I agree with Gas that I hope the price of gas plateau's SOON.
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post #9 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-28-2005, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gas Man
You can easily do such comparisons. The oil companies (especially the pipelines) try to reduce costs by reducing such expenses cause by safety concerns. Limiting accidents, leaks, and vechicle accidents.

We are also eliminating jobs with computers and other electronic components.

Can somebody give me a comparison on how much the cost of a car has gone up in the past 30 years versus how much gasoline has went up in the last 30 years....
Already skewing off there Gas Man. Doing the comparison of cost increase of cars vs. gasoline is comparing apples and oranges. Cost increase of autos has to do with improvements / performance of the vehicles and what the consumer wants (more luxuries). Gas has been gas since day 1 for the most part.
Eventually, in my opinion, the gas industry will go . With the development of hybrids and electric vehicles and eventually hydrogen and other less cost fuels, gas will become obsolete in vehicles. (however I will never see that day I am sure of it) LOL
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post #10 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-28-2005, 01:02 PM
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I think the plateau would be the best thing we can ask for and actually something obtainable!




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post #11 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-28-2005, 02:00 PM
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The biggest thing that has our gas prices where they are, around here anyway, is the taxes that the state and local gov'ts continue to place on the damned stuff. Here in WA I believe that something like $.40/gal is JUST TAXES and they've signed an additional $.10/gal increase over the next 5 years or something like that. Currently, in my area, the gas prices are about $2.35/gal, so without the state taxes on it it would still be under $2/gal. What *I* want to know is, if we have that kind of tax on the gas, and it's supposed to be for the roads...WTF is going on in our state gov't that they're not SPENDING THAT DAMNED MONEY ON THE ROADS???!!!!!!!!!!! I find it pretty damned hard to believe that with the number of people we have in this state and everyone commuting with practically NO public transit, that those taxes are not adding up to enough money to complete the projects that need to be done.

</rant>


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post #12 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-28-2005, 04:16 PM
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Hey, it only takes me like $9.00 to fill my take with 91Octane, so that's why the bike has like 2000 miles on it since May 11th!
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post #13 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-28-2005, 04:37 PM
 
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What pisses me off, those gas stations don't pay that much to have the tankers dump gas under the ground tanks, then they jack up the price. We're gettin screwed! Gas will be $2.07 one day, then the next its $2.34 or higher!
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post #14 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-28-2005, 05:42 PM
 
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Canadian oil price

I remember the 60's when the gallon (canadian gallon=4.54liters) was $0,45, now it's $1 per liter meaning $4,50/gallon!!!. sure things have changed, the easy & cheap sources of oil are gone at the exception of the persian golf. I dont want to play the smart a$$ here but there is a few reasons why the price pf gas is so high here are fews of those:
1- in a capitalist world you can't sell something cheaper than it is to produce.
2-as I have said it is more expensive to produce oil today then it was 30 years ago
3-price of any product depends on offer and demand of the same product
4-a lot of oil feilds are not exploited because the price of production is higher than the sale price, example: the Alberta oil sand where not that rentable until the price jumped over $40/barrel, a few months ago they decided to increase production to 400 000barrel/day (if I'm not wrong).
5- considering the 4 last points , the world total oil offer (or potential reserves) depends on the price, higher the price, higher the reserves.
6- so we can ask why does the price keeps rise if the offer is greater?, lets say that North America is not the only big oil consumer anymore, the USA are the biggest oil consumer in the world but China is very close behind, in a few years (less than 5), China will consume more oil than the USA and India is not far behind.
7- the thruth is that the production can not keep the pace of the increasing demand so the price keep on rising.
8-A peak in easy exploitable of the knowed existing oil as been reached, easy oil is gone.
9- Are we going to see cheap gas again? Better not counting on it, the demand is rising faster than the offer, and oil is like any other non-renouvelable resource when its gone its gone.....
10-Is the price will stabilise itself at a certain price? Hard one to answer, I tought (2 months ago) that the price will stabilise between 45 and 55 USD/barrel with an annual increase of $2 to $5, sounds like my scenario was too optimistic....
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post #15 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-28-2005, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gas Man
I think the plateau would be the best thing we can ask for and actually something obtainable!
Oil comapanies have their man in office
2005 first quarter profit increases for Conoco 80% Poor Exxon only posted 44% increased profit in first quarter. American oil companies raping American public, nobody cares

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post #16 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-28-2005, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SVupON1
What pisses me off, those gas stations don't pay that much to have the tankers dump gas under the ground tanks, then they jack up the price. We're gettin screwed! Gas will be $2.07 one day, then the next its $2.34 or higher!
BZZZZ!!! You are wrong! Actually it is the distibutors that feed gas to all the various gas stations that are jacking up the price!! The price at the tank farm only various up or down by about $0.05

If you want to blame anybody else, blame the wall street FU CKS. They are the ones that curve the price of crude oil because one guy that drills woke up this morning with a headache!




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post #17 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-29-2005, 08:28 AM
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post #18 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-29-2005, 08:55 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guideon72
The biggest thing that has our gas prices where they are, around here anyway, is the taxes that the state and local gov'ts continue to place on the damned stuff. Here in WA I believe that something like $.40/gal is JUST TAXES and they've signed an additional $.10/gal increase over the next 5 years or something like that. Currently, in my area, the gas prices are about $2.35/gal, so without the state taxes on it it would still be under $2/gal. What *I* want to know is, if we have that kind of tax on the gas, and it's supposed to be for the roads...WTF is going on in our state gov't that they're not SPENDING THAT DAMNED MONEY ON THE ROADS???!!!!!!!!!!! I find it pretty damned hard to believe that with the number of people we have in this state and everyone commuting with practically NO public transit, that those taxes are not adding up to enough money to complete the projects that need to be done.

</rant>
Have you examined the costs of the monorail in Dwntwn Seattle and the light rail feeding it?? It has been so expensive, the state could have bought a hybrid for every family...
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post #19 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-29-2005, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by bumblebee
Have you examined the costs of the monorail in Dwntwn Seattle and the light rail feeding it?? It has been so expensive, the state could have bought a hybrid for every family...

There is a monorail in downtown Seattle? Where is this at? I dont remember seeing anything of the such when Iwas there in February! Seattle rocks though! I would love to live out there!
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post #20 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-29-2005, 09:17 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Windigo
1- in a capitalist world you can't sell something cheaper than it is to produce.
2-as I have said it is more expensive to produce oil today then it was 30 years ago
3-price of any product depends on offer and demand of the same product
Obviously you have never been involved in agriculture...Do a google on the price of corn, wheat, sorgum or soy beans....Look at the commodities section of the WSJ from yesterday and then go back to 1960 and look at the same prices. Now let's look at the factors of production, tractor, fuel, seed, taxes, pest control and irrigation, just to name a few...I am getting within a few dimes per bushel for corn and wheat that my father did in 1960. How about those costs of production, have any of those increased? As A farmer, I don't get to live in your capitalistic, free market society. If I did, you would be paying more for a gallon of milk then a 12-pack of beer. Why do you think farmers are killing livestock and plowing mature fields? If the American Farmer could sell our products on the open world market to the highest bidder, There would be wide spread famine in this country, because we would be exporting our food overseas to hungry people who would pay. Our government won't allow us access to those markets so agriculture prices are fixed here... your economics teacher didn't tell you the whole story, or maybe you missed that day...
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