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post #1 of 110 (permalink) Old 07-07-2005, 06:56 AM Thread Starter
 
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Terror attacks rock London

Story with pics here...

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/a...source=PA&ct=5



Terrorists brought carnage to London today with a series of bombs that killed and maimed people across the capital.

There were six co-ordinated blasts on the Tube network and a bus packed with commuters was ripped apart in what Tony Blair called a "barbaric" string of attacks.

The onslaught was unleashed on the day that G8 world leaders met at Gleneagles.

There were reports that the al Qaida terror network had claimed responsibility for the attacks, which mirrored the vicious assault on Madrid commuters in 2004 in which almost 200 people died.

The day of death and chaos prompted the Prime Minister to vow that the terrorists would never win.

"Whatever they do it is our determination that they will never succeed in destroying what we hold dear in this country and other civilised nations in the world," he said.

Mr Blair said he would be leaving the G8 summit for London in the wake of the attacks, but the summit would go on.

Eye-witnesses reported seeing bodies piled in the wreckage of damaged Tube trains.

The double decker bus which was ripped apart by a massive blast was packed with people forced off the underground when the network was shut down
Eyewitnesses said there were many fatalities.

As the scale of the attack became clear ministers attending the regular Thursday cabinet meeting convened an emergency Cobra committee to deal with the crisis.
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post #2 of 110 (permalink) Old 07-07-2005, 07:45 AM
 
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Well, this isn't good. What exactly can we do to put a stop to this sort of crap? We certainly can't just give in to what the terrorists want because that would make situations worse. They'd just do this sort of thing whenever they wanted something. Even if we take out Osama, there will be others to pick up where he left off. I sure hope we can put an end to this soon.
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post #3 of 110 (permalink) Old 07-07-2005, 08:11 AM
 
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Sad. So, the fight continues. I think most people knew it was a matter of time before these scumbags carried out more attacks. Find them, DO NOT take prisoners, and kill them on the spot.
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post #4 of 110 (permalink) Old 07-07-2005, 08:26 AM
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I heard about this this morning on the news. It just goes to show that they don't just hate the US..it's anybody wanting to do anything to help the world.

We can't give in to them. That will just be adding fuel to the fire. These pricks just keep at it... they had extensive research and planning on this... as soon as they completed blowin the crap out of the subway and people started using the buses..they started blowing those up!

But this is sad..... I must say that the Brits sure did seem to handle themselves well. Everybody looked pretty calm for what had to be a hectic series of events!




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post #5 of 110 (permalink) Old 07-07-2005, 09:24 AM
 
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A joke to bring up the spirits...

Two Arabs boarded a flight out of Detroit. One took a window seat and the other sat next to him in the middle seat.

Just before takeoff, an American Biker sat down in the aisle seat.
After takeoff, the Biker kicked his shoes off, wiggled his toes and was settling in when the Arab in the window seat said, "I need to get up and get a coke."

Don't get up," said the Biker, "I'm in the aisle seat; I'll get it
for you."
As soon as he left, one of the Arabs picked up the Biker's shoe and spat in it. When he returned with the coke, the other Arab said, "That looks good, I'd really like one, too."

Again, the Biker obligingly went to fetch it. While he was gone the other Arab picked up his other shoe and spat in it. When the Biker returned, they all sat back and enjoyed the flight.

As the plane was landing, the Biker slipped his feet into his shoes and knew immediately what had happened.

"Why does it have to be this way?" he asked. "How long must this go on? This fighting between our nations? This hatred? This animosity? This spitting in shoes and pissing in cokes?"
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post #6 of 110 (permalink) Old 07-07-2005, 10:00 AM
 
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That Joke was funny Twisty.


That aside, its always tragic when a Terrorist attack happens anywhere. The fight indeed continues. I hope these bastards get caught. I just dont understand WHY they do this? What do they think is going to happen. We get attacked and just say, "OK you win. We wont use every armed force resource we have to fight back, here you go, just take our country." No, we are going to fight with every armed force resouce and eventually win. If you piss off enough of the world (especially the powerful countires), then the less chance you have as a terrorist. Because then everybody is going to hunt you down and take you out. I wouldnt be suprised if the media or someone blames us indirectly (or directly) for what happened. They usually blame us for everything else.

My condolences for London
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post #7 of 110 (permalink) Old 07-07-2005, 10:02 AM
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Thats horrible... I hope the bastards who did and planned this blew themselves straight to hell in the attacks...


but twisty, thats funny

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post #8 of 110 (permalink) Old 07-07-2005, 10:05 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bikerdude
Sad. So, the fight continues. I think most people knew it was a matter of time before these scumbags carried out more attacks. Find them, DO NOT take prisoners, and kill them on the spot.
I get so tired of hearing about this. It is sad..I just wish this would end.
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post #9 of 110 (permalink) Old 07-07-2005, 10:23 AM
 
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Cpt Morgan, to answer your question, Ralph Peters addresses that very thing in his book, "When Devils Walk the Earth." (he also has a new book: Beyond Baghdad: Postmodern War and Peace. . http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...460642-3277751)

This is cut and pasted from Devils walk the Earth:


Chapter III. Fighting Terror: Do's and Don'ts for a Superpower:
1. Be feared!


2. Identify the type of terrorists you face, and know your enemy as well as you possibly can. Although tactics may be similar, strategies for dealing with practical vs. apocalyptic terrorists can differ widely. Practical terrorists may have legitimate grievances that deserve consideration, although their methods cannot be tolerated. Apocalyptic terrorists, no matter their rhetoric, seek your destruction and must be killed to the last man. The apt metaphor is cancer: you cannot hope for success if you only cut out part of the tumor. For the apocalyptic terrorist, evading your efforts can easily be turned into a public triumph. Our bloodiest successes will create far fewer terrorists and sympathizers than our failures.


3. Do not be afraid to be powerful. Cold War-era gambits of proportionate response and dialog may have some utility in dealing with practical terrorists, but they are counter-productive in dealing with apocalyptic terrorists. Our great strengths are wealth and raw power. When we fail to bring those strengths to bear, we contribute to our own defeat. For a superpower to think small, which has been our habit across the last decade, at least, is self-defeating folly. Our responses to terrorist acts should make the world gasp!


4. Speak bluntly. Euphemisms are interpreted as weakness by our enemies and mislead the American people. Speak of killing terrorists and destroying their organizations. Timid speech leads to timid actions. Explain when necessary, but do not apologize. Expressions of regret are never seen as a mark of decency by terrorists or their supporters, but only as a sign that our will is faltering. Blame the terrorists as the root cause whenever operations have unintended negative consequences. Never go on the rhetorical defensive.


5. Concentrate on winning the propaganda war where it is winnable. Focus on keeping or enhancing the support from allies and well-disposed clients, but do not waste an inordinate amount of effort trying to win unwinnable hearts and minds. Convince hostile populations through victory.


6. Do not be drawn into a public dialog with terrorists, especially not with apocalyptic terrorists. You cannot win. You legitimize the terrorists by addressing them even through a third medium, and their extravagant claims will resound more successfully on their own home ground than anything you can say. Ignore absurd accusations, and never let the enemy's claims slow or sidetrack you. The terrorist wants you to react, and your best means of unbalancing him and his plan is to ignore his accusations.


7. Avoid planning creep. Within our vast bureaucratic system, too many voices compete for attention and innumerable agendas, often selfish and personal - intrude on any attempt to act decisively. Focus on the basic mission: the destruction of the terrorists with all the moral, intellectual and practical rigor you can bring to bear. All other issues, from future nation building, to alliance consensus, to humanitarian concerns are secondary.


8. Maintain resolve. Especially in the Middle East and Central Asia, experts and diplomats will always present you with a multitude of good reasons for doing nothing, or for doing too little (or for doing exactly the wrong thing). Fight as hard as you can within the system to prevent diplomats from gaining influence over the strategic campaign. Although their intentions are often good, our diplomats and their obsolete strategic views are the terrorist's unwitting allies and diplomats are extremely jealous of military success and military authority in their region (where their expertise is never as deep or subtle as they believe it to be). Beyond the problem with our diplomats, the broader forces of bureaucratic entropy are an internal threat. The counter-terrorist campaign must be not only resolute, but constantly self-rejuvenating in ideas, techniques, military and inter-agency combinations, and sheer energy. Old hands must be stimulated constantly by new ideas.


9. When in doubt, hit harder than you think necessary. Success will be forgiven. Even the best-intentioned failure will not. When military force is used against terrorist networks, it should be used with such power that it stuns even our allies. We must get over our cowardice in means. While small-scale raids and other knifepoint operations are useful against individual targets, broader operations should be overwhelming. Of course, targeting limitations may inhibit some efforts but whenever possible, maximum force should be used in simultaneous operations at the very beginning of a campaign. Do not hesitate to supplement initial target lists with extensive bombing attacks on nothing if they can increase the initial psychological impact. Demonstrate power whenever you can. Show; don't tell!


10. Whenever legal conditions permit, kill terrorists on the spot (do not give them a chance to surrender, if you can help it). Contrary to academic wisdom, the surest way to make a martyr of a terrorist is to capture, convict and imprison him, leading to endless efforts by sympathizers to stage kidnappings, hijacking and other events intended to liberate the imprisoned terrorist(s). This is war, not law enforcement.


11. Never listen to those who warn that ferocity on our part reduces us to the level of the terrorists. That is the argument of the campus, not of the battlefield, and it insults America's service members and the American people. Historically, we have proven, time after time, that we can do a tough, dirty job for our country without any damage to our nation's moral fabric (Hiroshima and Nagasaki did not interfere with American democracy, values or behavior).


12. Spare and protect innocent civilians whenever possible, but: do not let the prospect of civilian casualties interfere with ultimate mission accomplishment. This is a fight to protect the American people, and we must do so whatever the cost, or the price in American lives may be devastating. In a choice between them, and us the choice is always us.


13. Do not allow the terrorists to hide behind religion. Apocalyptic terrorists cite religion as a justification for attacking us; in turn, we cannot let them hide behind religious holidays, taboos, strictures or even sacred terrain. We must establish a consistent reputation for relentless pursuit and destruction of those who kill our citizens. Until we do this, our hesitation will continue to strengthen our enemy's ranks and his resolve.


14. Do not allow third parties to broker a peace, a truce, or any pause in operations. One of the most difficult challenges in fighting terrorism on a global scale is the drag produced by nervous allies. We must be single-minded. The best thing we can do for our allies in the long-term is to be so resolute and so strong that they value their alliance with us all the more. We must recognize the innate strength of our position and stop allowing regional leaders with counterproductive local agendas to subdue or dilute our efforts.


15. Don't flinch. If an operation goes awry and friendly casualties are unexpectedly high, immediately bolster morale and the military's image by striking back swiftly in a manner that inflicts the maximum possible number of casualties on the enemy and his supporters. Hit back as graphically as possible, to impress upon the local and regional players that you weren't badly hurt or deterred in the least.


16. Do not worry about alienating already-hostile populations. --(ED ADDED, "OR ANTI-WAR SENATORS ASPIRING TO BECOME PRESIDENT OF OUR GREAT NATION.")


17. Whenever possible, humiliate your enemy in the eyes of his own people. Do not try to use reasonable arguments against him. Shame him publicly, in any way you can. Create doubt where you cannot excite support. Most apocalyptic terrorists, especially, come from cultures of male vanity. Disgrace them at every opportunity. Done successfully, this both degrades them in the eyes of their followers and supporters, and provokes the terrorist to respond, increasing his vulnerability.


18. If the terrorists hide, strike what they hold dear, using clandestine means and, whenever possible, foreign agents to provoke them to break cover and react. Do not be squeamish. Your enemy is not. Subtlety is not superpower strength but the raw power to do that, which is necessary, is our great advantage. We forget that, while the world may happily chide or accuse us-or complain of our inhumanity-no one can stop us if we maintain our strength of will. Much of the world will complain no matter what we do. Hatred of America is the default position of failed individuals and failing states around the world, in every civilization, and there is nothing we can do to change their minds. We refuse to understand how much of humanity will find excuses for evil, so long as the evil strikes those who are more successful than the apologists themselves. This is as true of American academics, whose eagerness to declare our military efforts a failure is unflagging, or European clerics, who still cannot forgive America's magnanimity at the end of World War II, as it is of unemployed Egyptians or Pakistanis. The psychologically marginalized are at least as dangerous as the physically deprived.


19. Do not allow the terrorists sanctuary in any country, at any time, under any circumstances. Counter-terrorist operations must, above all, be relentless. This does not necessarily mean that military operations will be constantly underway sometimes it will be surveillance efforts, or deception plans, or operations by other agencies. But the overall effort must never pause for breath. We must be faster, more resolute, more resourceful and, ultimately, even more uncompromising than our enemies.


20. Never declare victory. Announce successes and milestones. But never give the terrorists a chance to embarrass you after a public pronouncement that the war is over.


21. Impress upon the minds of terrorists and potential terrorists everywhere, and upon the populations and governments inclined to support them, that American retaliation will be powerful and uncompromising. You will never deter fanatics, but you can frighten those who might support, harbor or attempt to use terrorists for their own ends. Our basic task in the world today is to restore a sense of American power, capabilities and resolve. We must be hard, or we will be struck wherever we are soft. It is folly for charity to precede victory. First win, then unclench your fist.


22. Do everything possible to make terrorists and their active supporters live in terror themselves. Turn the tide psychologically and practically. While this will not deter hard-core apocalyptic terrorists, it will dissipate their energies as they try to defend themselves and fear will deter many less-committed supporters of terror. Do not be distracted by the baggage of the term assassination. This is a war. The enemy, whether a hijacker or a financier, violates the laws of war by his refusal to wear a uniform and by purposely targeting civilians. He is by definition a war criminal. On our soil, he is either a spy or a saboteur, and not entitled to the protections of the U.S. Constitution. Those who abet terrorists must grow afraid to turn out the lights to go to sleep.


23. Never accept the consensus of the Washington intelligentsia, which looks backward to past failures, not forward to future successes.


24. In dealing with Islamic apocalyptic terrorists, remember that their most cherished symbols are fewer and far more vulnerable than are the West's. Ultimately, no potential target can be regarded as off-limits when the United States is threatened with mass casualties. Worry less about offending foreign sensibilities and more about protecting Americans.


25. Do not look for answers in recent history, which is still unclear and subject to personal emotion. Begin with the study of the classical world, specifically Rome, which is the nearest model to the present-day United States. Mild with subject peoples, to whom they brought the rule of ethical law, the Romans in their rise and at their apogee were implacable with their enemies. The utter destruction of Carthage brought centuries of local peace, while the later empire's attempts to appease barbarians consistently failed!
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post #10 of 110 (permalink) Old 07-07-2005, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Morgan
Well, this isn't good. What exactly can we do to put a stop to this sort of crap? We certainly can't just give in to what the terrorists want because that would make situations worse. They'd just do this sort of thing whenever they wanted something. Even if we take out Osama, there will be others to pick up where he left off. I sure hope we can put an end to this soon.

Never going to end. Until other countries bud out of others business.
What comes around, goes around

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post #11 of 110 (permalink) Old 07-07-2005, 11:21 AM
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Good funny Twisty! Pig that was good stuff but it got too long!




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post #12 of 110 (permalink) Old 07-07-2005, 12:10 PM
 
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can someone please tell me what all this bombing and loss of lives accomplishes? i just don't understand...
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post #13 of 110 (permalink) Old 07-07-2005, 12:15 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetskifast
Never going to end. Until other countries bud out of others business.
What comes around, goes around
so are you saying we should have just let it go when those bastards pulled their crap on 09/11?????????????????????????????????

Kill all the SOB's involved in this terrorist stuff. This human rights **** is pissing me off. We find em and put em in jail. Screw this. Start killing these MFers and see if they still want to keep f'n with us.
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post #14 of 110 (permalink) Old 07-07-2005, 12:18 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Gas Man
Good funny Twisty! Pig that was good stuff but it got too long!
That's about as condensed as it's going to get. . The guy is a great author and doesn't beat around the bush. If you give an inch, they'll take a mile.
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post #15 of 110 (permalink) Old 07-07-2005, 12:20 PM
 
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Originally Posted by itgirl25
can someone please tell me what all this bombing and loss of lives accomplishes? i just don't understand...
They think that it will scare us enough that we will give into their wishes, like jetskifast wrote we should do.
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post #16 of 110 (permalink) Old 07-07-2005, 12:32 PM
 
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I agree with Chev, even better Nuke the bastards!
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post #17 of 110 (permalink) Old 07-07-2005, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Pigface1
That's about as condensed as it's going to get. . The guy is a great author and doesn't beat around the bush. If you give an inch, they'll take a mile.
I understand Pig, and he has the right idea.

I'm with Chev on this 200%... kill em...kill em all... let god or ala sort em out! The World needs to put a stop to terrorism. We need more globel involvement to stomp them out!




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post #18 of 110 (permalink) Old 07-07-2005, 02:26 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetskifast
Never going to end. Until other countries bud out of others business.
What comes around, goes around
Your concern is touching................ Can someone PLEASE interpret what his post means? You know.......in ENGLISH!!!!!!!
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post #19 of 110 (permalink) Old 07-07-2005, 02:51 PM
 
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That is the best effort for composing a paragraph you will ever get from him. Cut him some slack, English is only his primary language.

What he is saying is we bring it on ourselves and the terrorists are nothing more than freedom fighters who have done no wrong. If we weren't such meanies, terrorism would cease. Then, everyone in the world would be able to party with each other and bake cookies on our gingerbread patios shaded by cotton candy trees.
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post #20 of 110 (permalink) Old 07-07-2005, 04:10 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bikerdude
Your concern is touching................ Can someone PLEASE interpret what his post means? You know.......in ENGLISH!!!!!!!
Im sorry, I left my retard to english translation book at home today, can you please try typing better?

From what I get from that it sounds like Jestski you believe the "out of sight, out of mind" theory. IF thats the case, you need to wake up and see the world for what it is; way bigger, and in most cases, more normal than your backwards of a city you call San Francisco. And dont start with me, I was born in raised in Bay Area. I know how it is. That's why we left.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Gas Man
I'm with Chev on this 200%... kill em...kill em all... let god or ala sort em out! The World needs to put a stop to terrorism. We need more globel involvement to stomp them out!
can't agree with you guys more. They (insert any radical group here) get mad if we dont play by the rules and try to filter out the bad guys in a civilized manner. Yet they (insert any radical group here) get mad if we (the coalition) is killed by a terrorist who acted as a civillian. They use our rules against us and take advantage. Its a double edged sword on racial profiling I know. But how many lives is it going to take to realize that we profile for a reason? Sheesh!
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