Ninja 650R: Speculate on long-term reliability. - TwoWheelForum: Motorcycle and Sportbike forums
 
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-14-2006, 11:28 AM Thread Starter
 
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Ninja 650R: Speculate on long-term reliability.

So Im reading about the new Ninja 650R. One thing that really struck me was that the new engine has an all-aluminum cylinder with no liner, just a good layer of hard chrome plating, in order to reduce the size and weight.

This kind of bothers me.

I work as an engineer in a machine shop. I know my aluminums, and I know my hard chrome plating.

Standard HCR has great hardness - 65-70 Rc - but it's pretty brittle too. It doesn't match the expansion coefficient of aluminum as well as I'd like.

Does this sort of fabrication have much potential for long-term wear and tear? At first glance, I'd say no. The chrome layer is pretty durable -

(I don't know how thick they're going, anyone have a micrograph?)

- but it would seem that the plating should start to crack and fall away from the cylinder wall after a certain amount of thermal cycling.

On the upside, I suppose it wouldn't be all that hard to get the cylinder re-plated and honed back to size when it got worn... or is the engine modular enough that you can just bolt on a new cylinder?

Any thoughts?
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-14-2006, 11:30 AM
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Good question and time will tell.

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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-14-2006, 11:42 AM
 
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I know they had to start doing something about the weight of that bike, but after reading that evaluation, I'm not sure they're starting in the right spot... I'll be watching the reviews on this one.
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-14-2006, 07:13 PM
 
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i thought the same thing about the linerless cylinder bores in aluminum too... just not to the extent that you have. For the bikes intended use, i think its not a worth while trade off. (width savings for durability) The width savings are useless unless youre going racing. And if youre going racing, the heat youre generating would benefit from sleves. But the bike isnt designed for racing (no shock linkage, steel frame). so the width saving is redundant. But mabye the chrome will hold up. I like the bike, and i know kawi makes some bulletproof motors, so we will see about this one.
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-15-2006, 02:17 PM
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I'm sure knowing Kaw they did their homework on this... there must be more to this...




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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-15-2006, 09:54 PM
 
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Shouldn't be too hard to bolt on new cylinders if they ever need it. We'll be finding out the durability of the motors under racing conditions over the next year, but so far the thing has been totally reliable. Several guys are endurance-racing them and have reported no engine problems at all.

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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-16-2006, 06:37 AM
 
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Thanks for the reference pic.
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-16-2006, 05:08 PM
 
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welcome back jarelj! i was hoping you would chime in.
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-18-2006, 09:36 PM
 
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welcome back jarelj! i was hoping you would chime in.
Happy to be here!
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-19-2006, 02:44 PM
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Great pic... and you can see how a new cylinder bolt on would be easy. One thing that the other sportbikes don't have so much. Or should I say at least the inline 4's.




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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-19-2006, 09:44 PM
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This is not new technology. Most of the manufacturers have been using it for several years now and I can't say I've heard much negative about it. About the biggest drawback is that you can't easily overbore it and slap in an oversize piston if something fails (or you want to bump displacement). You can either replace the cylinder, have the cylinder replated, or have a sleeve installed.

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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-19-2006, 10:36 PM
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This is not new technology. Most of the manufacturers have been using it for several years now and I can't say I've heard much negative about it. About the biggest drawback is that you can't easily overbore it and slap in an oversize piston if something fails (or you want to bump displacement). You can either replace the cylinder, have the cylinder replated, or have a sleeve installed.

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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-19-2006, 11:08 PM
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nice reference jarelj & larryg

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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-20-2006, 08:08 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Gas Man View Post
Great pic... and you can see how a new cylinder bolt on would be easy. One thing that the other sportbikes don't have so much. Or should I say at least the inline 4's.
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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-23-2006, 05:56 PM
 
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It looks like a simple fix if the chrome lining fails, just bore it out and put in the cast iron sleeve like they do in diesels or old school 2 stroke saws.
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