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post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-25-2007, 11:47 AM Thread Starter
 
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GSXR is surging

I have a 2000 GSXR 600 that I recently purchased. At the moment it is only piped. The problem is that when I drive at low RPMs, like below 3000, the bike
surges. When I say surge, I mean it has an uncontrollable jerkish motion (not rpm surges). Its not bad, but itís a definite problem. It also has a little bit of a lag in take off power. It never back fires and the plugs looked fine when I took them out so I know its not loading up. A friend of mine that knows 4-wheeler motors inside and out is going to put a jet kit on it for me but there is a big difference between a 4-wheeler motor and a sport bike. Can anyone help the two of us get this bike running the way it should? I have a limited budget! Thanks
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post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-25-2007, 02:46 PM
 
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Originally Posted by tubehead View Post
I have a 2000 GSXR 600 that I recently purchased. At the moment it is only piped. The problem is that when I drive at low RPMs, like below 3000, the bike
surges. When I say surge, I mean it has an uncontrollable jerkish motion (not rpm surges). Its not bad, but it’s a definite problem. It also has a little bit of a lag in take off power. It never back fires and the plugs looked fine when I took them out so I know its not loading up. A friend of mine that knows 4-wheeler motors inside and out is going to put a jet kit on it for me but there is a big difference between a 4-wheeler motor and a sport bike. Can anyone help the two of us get this bike running the way it should? I have a limited budget! Thanks
if he can work on carbs you should be fine, just be careful when you drill
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post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-25-2007, 03:14 PM
 
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When in danger, when in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout!

Diagnosing throttle problems over the internet is like having sex over the phone; it doesn't cost much, but it isn't very satisfying, either.

When diagnosing problems, it's easier to address one issue at a time; you didn't say if you had a full system, half, or just a slip-on. Got the stock aircleaner? Got water or rust or bugs or dirt, or even old gas in the tank? How long since the carbs have been synched? Take care of the simple/cheap basics, THEN resort to jets, needle tapers and circlip positions....................
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post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-25-2007, 03:32 PM Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by oldetymebiker View Post
When in danger, when in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout!

Diagnosing throttle problems over the internet is like having sex over the phone; it doesn't cost much, but it isn't very satisfying, either.

When diagnosing problems, it's easier to address one issue at a time; you didn't say if you had a full system, half, or just a slip-on. Got the stock aircleaner? Got water or rust or bugs or dirt, or even old gas in the tank? How long since the carbs have been synched? Take care of the simple/cheap basics, THEN resort to jets, needle tapers and circlip positions....................
exaust: 1/2 system
air filter: stock paper element
fuel: I bought the bike a month ago and have put about 400 miles on it(a few tanks) so it should be good by now if there was any water in the gas. Not to mention I ran some Sea Foam throught it. The sea foam seemed to help my past machines run a little better if they were grumpy from sitting all winter no rust i can see either.
Carb adjustments: unknown, maybe never. any tips on how to do that?
Jet Kit: I was wanting to do that anyway, Im just hoping to kill two birds with one stone here. more power/ better throttle response and a solution to my current problem
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post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-25-2007, 04:36 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldetymebiker View Post
When in danger, when in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout!

Diagnosing throttle problems over the internet is like having sex over the phone; it doesn't cost much, but it isn't very satisfying, either.

When diagnosing problems, it's easier to address one issue at a time; you didn't say if you had a full system, half, or just a slip-on. Got the stock aircleaner? Got water or rust or bugs or dirt, or even old gas in the tank? How long since the carbs have been synched? Take care of the simple/cheap basics, THEN resort to jets, needle tapers and circlip positions....................
ya, that also
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post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-25-2007, 04:55 PM
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When in doubt... drain the gas.

YOu are going to need to snyc the carbs either way. Might as well start there.

But while your trying to think "kill 2 birds with one stone" mentality... that's a horrible idea when trying to work on a problem. You need to figure out what is wrong before you start just throwing parts at it.

If it ran ok before then it don't. There is something else a miff. I would say... drain, rinse and refill the gas tank. Replace the fuel filter. Then clean and sync the carbs. The latter of which can be complicated.




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post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-25-2007, 05:09 PM
 
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Originally Posted by tubehead View Post
exaust: 1/2 system
air filter: stock paper element
fuel: I bought the bike a month ago and have put about 400 miles on it(a few tanks) so it should be good by now if there was any water in the gas. Not to mention I ran some Sea Foam throught it. The sea foam seemed to help my past machines run a little better if they were grumpy from sitting all winter no rust i can see either.
Carb adjustments: unknown, maybe never. any tips on how to do that?
Jet Kit: I was wanting to do that anyway, Im just hoping to kill two birds with one stone here. more power/ better throttle response and a solution to my current problem
The BEST process for carb tuning on an unknown machine (and since you don't know the service history, it is an unknown) is to set things as close to baseline as possible: with stock filter/no airbox mods, the process should be to clean and synch/set the carbs (you have NO business rejetting without first setting float levels and pilot screws and synching/balancing the carbs)

http://www.cartestsoftware.com/fz1/c...onization.html

This will insure that a simple issue is not skewing results, and hopefully preventing further poor running, bad milage, and mebbe holed pistons and burnt valves.

Once you've got decent baseline results, you can tune from there; you may not even need rejetting: with a half system and no airbox/filter mods, you may end up with great results with just raising needles or a different needle profile. Careful changes, making one change at a time and then checking/testing results is the way to go. I've had to undo more shade tree mechanics "tuning" to find out the real underlying problem. When it comes to carbs, the shotgun method of tuning is almost always the wrong one.
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post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-25-2007, 05:47 PM Thread Starter
 
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thanks for all the info. After reading your comments I realize that I may have been jumping the gun a little with a jet kit.

Just out of curiosity, AFTER I get the bike to an acceptable base line, would a jet kit still be a bad idea. More power and better response just sounds so good, plus I would probably put on a K&N air filter while Im at it.

sorry if Im being power hungry, I am listening to you guys tho. If you guys dont think its a good idea, I wont waste the money.
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post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-25-2007, 06:47 PM
 
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It doesn't matter what we think....your bike will tell you what it needs: If you baseline it and it runs well, and then you open up the airbox, add some K&N's, and you develop a lean stumble or detonation , you will need to look into jets and/needle spacers.

In a nut shell, a carb has three separate "areas" of control; idle/low speed running, controlled by the idle/pilot jet and slide cutaway; medium throttle, controlled by the slide height and main jet NEEDLE TAPER, and high speed full throttle, controlled by the main jet size...it's a bit more complicated than that, but it'll do.

As you make changes to the intake and exhaust systems, you need to examine the effect those changes make to each circuit. The most accurate method is the dyno run with an exhaust gas sniffer that measures burnt mixture results, but a decent tuner can tell a lot by "reading" plugs. It's an art, not a science.
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post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-25-2007, 06:48 PM
 
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WOW,. some fact's out there from the TWF,. man hope you do lisen to there steps would not want to see that you gave up do 2 to much problem's,.
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post #11 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-25-2007, 11:57 PM
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OTB is ALL over this!!




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post #12 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-26-2007, 10:37 AM
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OTB stupid rep laws...
How many do I have to spread before I can rep the man again??
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post #13 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-26-2007, 10:46 AM
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OTB stupid rep laws...
How many do I have to spread before I can rep the man again??
5 i think...
just rep others, and count... then let us know.
you may start with me

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Originally Posted by drewpy View Post
they make the one i posted in a strap on version
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post #14 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-26-2007, 10:55 AM
 
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I repped the hell outta people this morning, so I'm cut off for a while.
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post #15 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-26-2007, 10:57 AM
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I repped the hell outta people this morning, so I'm cut off for a while.
WHOO HOOO I got you a star!!!!!!!!
Welcome to the club.

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Originally Posted by drewpy View Post
they make the one i posted in a strap on version
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post #16 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-26-2007, 11:44 AM
 
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Originally Posted by tubehead View Post
I have a 2000 GSXR 600 that I recently purchased. At the moment it is only piped. The problem is that when I drive at low RPMs, like below 3000, the bike
surges. When I say surge, I mean it has an uncontrollable jerkish motion (not rpm surges)... Thanks
If this happened to my bike, I would put it on it's centerstand and turn the rear wheel. I would see if a bearing is bad, the brakes are binding, or the chain is kinked. Then I would check the front wheel for bearings and brakes.

Then I would get out my low tech timing light and check the ignition timing to see if it advances correctly. I would then pull the plugs and check for a healthy spark.

Lastly, I would check the fuel filter, except mine uses a fine screen over each float seat. Then I would pull off the carbs and clean them. When I unscrewed the pilot jet and sprayed carb cleaner through, I would probably see that they are clogged. Especially since they are the thickness of a human hair and affect low-speed. After cleaning the top and bottom section of each carb, I would reinstall, synch the carbs, then set each idle mixture for highest RPM. But it would take me much, much longer to do it than write about it.
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post #17 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-26-2007, 12:54 PM Thread Starter
 
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Im positive its not the front or back wheel causing the prob. its all most the same feeling as when you take of from a stop sign in a manual drive car or truck and you are in too high of a grear. You know when your still moving but the motor jerks you a little bit because it doesnt have quite enough power.

Anyway, I plan to spend some time cleaning/tuning/snyc the carbs this wk end.

Also, my dad who drives a fuel truck for a living, mentioned that some bikes dont run well on prem no lead with the ethonal blend. I didnt realise it but the station I had been filling up at had the ethonal blend. Wouldnt it be great if all that was wrong was my choice of fuel! wishful thinkin im sure, but who knows.
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post #18 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-26-2007, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by tubehead View Post
Im positive its not the front or back wheel causing the prob. its all most the same feeling as when you take of from a stop sign in a manual drive car or truck and you are in too high of a grear. You know when your still moving but the motor jerks you a little bit because it doesnt have quite enough power.

Anyway, I plan to spend some time cleaning/tuning/snyc the carbs this wk end.

Also, my dad who drives a fuel truck for a living, mentioned that some bikes dont run well on prem no lead with the ethonal blend. I didnt realise it but the station I had been filling up at had the ethonal blend. Wouldnt it be great if all that was wrong was my choice of fuel! wishful thinkin im sure, but who knows.

maybe you are in too high a gear?

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Originally Posted by drewpy View Post
they make the one i posted in a strap on version
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post #19 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-26-2007, 02:20 PM Thread Starter
 
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actually 1st gear is where the problem is the most noticeable.
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post #20 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-26-2007, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drewpy View Post
they make the one i posted in a strap on version
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