Brake problems...Can Some One Please Help me!!! - TwoWheelForum: Motorcycle and Sportbike forums
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post #1 of 45 (permalink) Old 07-01-2007, 08:29 PM Thread Starter
 
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Brake problems...Can Some One Please Help me!!!

Ok well i have a problem with a 06 gixxer 600. The problem is when the bike is off the brakes are fine but just as soon as i turn it on and put it in gear the line looses all pressure!! I changed the calipers and brake pads and everything but still the same problem. i was on stuntlife forum and some guy got all crazy with me callimg me idiots becuz i didnt know. He also said it was the rotors he said that they were warped and i never said that couldnt be the problem i was just thinking its something smaller than that. But can some1 help me out and tell me what could be the problem BESIDES the rotors being warped. When the bike is in gear the brake lever goes all the way down to the bar and im not knowing why, and the thing thats getting me is when the bike is off the brakes work like a champ. But any positive help would be greatly appreciated
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post #2 of 45 (permalink) Old 07-01-2007, 09:01 PM
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wow, I never seen or heard of brake lines losing pressure with a turn of a key, either they work or don't. but with the lose of pressure try swapping out the master and rebleed.
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post #3 of 45 (permalink) Old 07-01-2007, 09:04 PM
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When in doubt... bleed.
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post #4 of 45 (permalink) Old 07-01-2007, 09:35 PM Thread Starter
 
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thanks for the replies so far amd to add on to that i have bleed the brakes. Bleed and Bleed and Bleed them!!! When i bleed them the brakes harden up and like i say they work when bike is off but just as soon as i turn the bike on and put it in gear it looses all pressure. But i have bleed the brakes the left, the right, and the top where the master is. But like i say thanks for the replies so far i hope some1 knows what it is before i take it to the shop
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post #5 of 45 (permalink) Old 07-01-2007, 09:41 PM
 
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To my knowledge, the brakes on that bike are manual- the electrical system shouldn't effect the brake system. ???

The only other possible issue I can think of is maybe your brake lines are expanding due to break down in the rubber. This would cause loss of pressure/ less response... are you using DOT 4 brake fluid? Is this both the front and rear brake losing pressure?

Last edited by TOMMYTOM; 07-01-2007 at 09:52 PM.
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post #6 of 45 (permalink) Old 07-01-2007, 09:46 PM
 
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Originally Posted by TOMMYTOM View Post
To my knowledge, the brakes on that bike are manual- the electrical system shouldn't effect the brake system. ???
The key shouldn't have any effect on the brakes what so ever.



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post #7 of 45 (permalink) Old 07-01-2007, 09:49 PM Thread Starter
 
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Tom i hear you i didnt think the electrical system had anything to do with it either. And im not even sure if it does but just as soon as the bike is put in gear and i try to go far the brakes it goes all the way to the bar and the only way to stop using the fronts is to pump the brakes and thats the only way they will harden back up is if i pump them and once i grab them to use after i pumped them they will get soft after that. Anyone ever heard of that?
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post #8 of 45 (permalink) Old 07-01-2007, 09:56 PM
 
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Originally Posted by gsxr-boy View Post
Tom i hear you i didnt think the electrical system had anything to do with it either. And im not even sure if it does but just as soon as the bike is put in gear and i try to go far the brakes it goes all the way to the bar and the only way to stop using the fronts is to pump the brakes and thats the only way they will harden back up is if i pump them and once i grab them to use after i pumped them they will get soft after that. Anyone ever heard of that?
Yes- that sounds like air in the system. You need to bleed the fronts again- I recommend having someone help you- and make sure the resevoir never runs empty while doing it. I think the length of time between pumping the brakes and the air bubbles causing gradual loss of pressure and you turning on the ignition is just a coincedence that made it seem as if the ignition was effecting the brake system. But they are infact independant of eachother.

When you bleed the brakes- make sure you close the bleeder each time before the brake handle contacts the bar. If you dont keep consistant preesure in the line- the air bubbles will continue to retreat up the brake line- and cause spongy brakes. But this absolutely has nothing to do with warped rotors. Whoever told you that is a complete crack head.

Last edited by TOMMYTOM; 07-01-2007 at 10:22 PM.
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post #9 of 45 (permalink) Old 07-01-2007, 09:58 PM
 
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this is strange as hell

i got no answers for ya but im curious-have you tryed holding the brake with the bike off, and then starting it up to see if it loses all the pressure and the lever goes to the grip?

when you turn the key on does it lose pressure, or the bike has to be actually running?

is there any brake fluid leakin when it loses pressure?

edit-new info-nevermind lol, you got air in there

Last edited by dnyce; 07-01-2007 at 10:04 PM.
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post #10 of 45 (permalink) Old 07-01-2007, 10:35 PM Thread Starter
 
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thanks to all that have replied to help me out seriously thanks. But back to bizness ill try to bleed the brakes once again and make sure im doing it right if im not mistaken Tom said to make sure the bleeder is closed before i start to pump the brakes. Oh and the guy that told me that he said i was an idiot for not listening to him becuz he said it wa the rotors but i felt that the rotors had nothing to do with it loosing pressure. But you can find him talking noise to me on stuntlife.com And to dnyce no it only looses pressure when the bike goes into gear not when i put the key in! And another guy said that the hole in the screw that goes into the brake line that holds the brake line into the caliper has to line up with the hole inside of there and if not then the fluid is just going around in circles. Is that true? Once again thanks and You guys have been a big help all ready and this is my first day on this forum im a newbie!!!lol
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post #11 of 45 (permalink) Old 07-01-2007, 10:38 PM
 
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Def re-bleed. Have someone help you.



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post #12 of 45 (permalink) Old 07-01-2007, 10:43 PM
 
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make sure resevior is full (dot 4 brake fluid)
pump brake handle 5- 10 times and hold
while holding brake lever- open the brake bleeder on the front left brake caliper. ("left" as sitting on the bike- this should be the bleeder farthest from the resevoir.)- after the air/fluid escapes- close the bleeder and repeat untill there are NO more bubbles.(make sure the brake resevoir never runs empty or you'll have to start over) Any time you release the front brake lever make sure- the brake bleeder is closed first.

now repeat on the right side.

*hint* when you think you have gotten ALL the air out- then do it 5 more times.

Last edited by TOMMYTOM; 07-01-2007 at 10:46 PM.
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post #13 of 45 (permalink) Old 07-01-2007, 10:49 PM
 
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you said you replaced the calipers. and pads. or just pads? if you changed calipers, did you change the crush washers on the banjo bolts? they are usually a one time use. are the pistons in the caliper sealing properly? the whole key on thing is weird, the only time that should effect it is if it has abs, which yours shouldn't. make sure the lines aren't being kinked any where that has moving parts when the engine is running. try rolling the bike with the ignition off and see if they still lose pressure. good luck man, and by all means if you figure it out, let all of us know.
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post #14 of 45 (permalink) Old 07-01-2007, 10:51 PM Thread Starter
 
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ok thanks Tom thats what ill do it seems just to have air in the line and a lot of it. But in your second to the last post you said the brake lever shouldnt touch the bar until the bleeder is closed. So when i hold it and have some1 to open the bleeder once that is done do i let go of the brake, and then pump it up once the bleeder is closed? Because the way i was doing it is holding the brake lever all the way down and open the bleeder while holding the brake down and after the bleeder is closed pump the brakes is that right or wrong?
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post #15 of 45 (permalink) Old 07-01-2007, 10:59 PM
 
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you guys correct me if im wrong, but depending on how the bike is set up(either a splitter or the m/c goes to one caliper, and the calipers are connected), you have to bleed it in a certain order to make sure you get all the air out. maybe thats why you was having a few problems when u were previously bleeding...
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post #16 of 45 (permalink) Old 07-01-2007, 11:02 PM
 
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lol ill just shut up, you guys are posting faster, you're in good hands gsxrboy
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post #17 of 45 (permalink) Old 07-01-2007, 11:03 PM Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by bowb4me View Post
you said you replaced the calipers. and pads. or just pads? if you changed calipers, did you change the crush washers on the banjo bolts? they are usually a one time use. are the pistons in the caliper sealing properly? the whole key on thing is weird, the only time that should effect it is if it has abs, which yours shouldn't. make sure the lines aren't being kinked any where that has moving parts when the engine is running. try rolling the bike with the ignition off and see if they still lose pressure. good luck man, and by all means if you figure it out, let all of us know.
yea like if the bike is off and im just rolling it the brakes work fine i mean exactly like you would want them to its just once the bike goes in gear all pressure is lost. No i didnt change the crush washers or anything hell i dont even know what they are. or those bolts you speak of. And what do you mean are they sealing properly? A friend and i took them off and when the brake is applied all the calipers dont come out at the same time to push the pads onto the rotor ( should they all come out together at the same time?) but if i pump the brake the others catch up is that right or what could cause that?
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post #18 of 45 (permalink) Old 07-01-2007, 11:04 PM
 
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Originally Posted by gsxr-boy View Post
ok thanks Tom thats what ill do it seems just to have air in the line and a lot of it. But in your second to the last post you said the brake lever shouldnt touch the bar until the bleeder is closed. So when i hold it and have some1 to open the bleeder once that is done do i let go of the brake, and then pump it up once the bleeder is closed? Because the way i was doing it is holding the brake lever all the way down and open the bleeder while holding the brake down and after the bleeder is closed pump the brakes is that right or wrong?
You are doing it right. the reason I said that is if you are holding the brake lever against the bar and the bleeder is open and all the pressure is out of the line- then there is no longer a positive pressure being applied and air can back feed up the brake line... eventually you should not be able to contact the bar with the brake lever.
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post #19 of 45 (permalink) Old 07-01-2007, 11:06 PM
 
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Originally Posted by gsxr-boy View Post
yea like if the bike is off and im just rolling it the brakes work fine i mean exactly like you would want them to its just once the bike goes in gear all pressure is lost. No i didnt change the crush washers or anything hell i dont even know what they are. or those bolts you speak of. And what do you mean are they sealing properly? A friend and i took them off and when the brake is applied all the calipers dont come out at the same time to push the pads onto the rotor ( should they all come out together at the same time?) but if i pump the brake the others catch up is that right or what could cause that?
Once you have all the air out of the line the brake pistons should work simutaneously.
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post #20 of 45 (permalink) Old 07-01-2007, 11:17 PM Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by TOMMYTOM View Post
Once you have all the air out of the line the brake pistons should work simutaneously.
ok so you said bleed the left side first? Does this make a difference? If so thats prolly my problem cuz i always start with the right side first for ome reason. And second did you read early in the post about the screw that goes into the brake line and if so is that true or false? Dnyce i see im in good hands thanks a lot guys this is what i like when bikers come together and help each other out!!!!
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