Tricky stuck... Clutch problems plz look - TwoWheelForum: Motorcycle and Sportbike forums
 
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-19-2008, 09:08 PM Thread Starter
 
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Tricky stuck... Clutch problems plz look

alright, ive tried a couple different forums, with a couple different mechanics..and still yet to have a solution. so here it is

bought a bike, 2003 kawi ZX7R 750 (salvage title), bike was garage kept, but the clutch was burnt out... bought for 2grand perfect body... 11k miles..

so i thought it'd be a simple clutch kit repair, and so i ordered it up, bought a kevlar kit... got some plates with the the last 2 being .7s like the Haynes book said... did everything step by step.

ONLY replaced Fibers, Plates, Gasket, Springs... thats it. everything else seemed intact and in working order. obvious burn marks on old plates and worn black fibers.

got it all back together and im running into the same problem the bike was doing before. crank the bike up fine no problems... purs like a kitten, warm it up for a bit, hop on...ride... maybe 10-30 mins DEPENDING on how warm the bike gets from what i see... distances maybe 2-10 miles. .. then the bike just starts slipping. bad. goes from huge RPMs for gears...then just while in gear WILL NOT go... no repsonse.. engine is fine. no chain movement.. rev all i want IN gear and the bike will not move.

i've been told everything from replace the Clutch basket: (which is my next step possibly... but the 32mm nut holding that basket on seems like a task i rather not undertake)
or that the clutch pusher rod needs to be replaced... or the lines needed to be bled out and replaced w/ new clutch fluid.. which ive bled and replaced.

so thats that. any help appreciated, thanks
-john

ps heres my bike, as i bought it... ive done nothing to the body. pipes came with purchase.

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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-19-2008, 09:19 PM
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What oil are you running, and is the spacing on the clutch plates correct? Too close and they'll heat up when disengaged and not work, too far and they never engage properly and heat up and not work. The wrong oil may have additives that cause the clutch to act up. Did you flush the old oil (and clutch residue) out of the entire engine?

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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-19-2008, 09:30 PM
 
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its a possibility that something was misadjusted, but I'd suspect something more serious like the clutch basket. did you notice anything else not looking right when you were in there?
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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-19-2008, 09:33 PM Thread Starter
 
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umm spacing im not really sure what you're asking Phenix_Rider.
on my bike the clutch basket sorta holds all the fibers/plates together in one good patch...sorta.
and they all sit in there, then you screw on the pressure plate, and tighten down the springs/bolts...and cover...

i presoaked the fibers for like 15 hours...overnight and while i was at work. then installed.

the oil, i used factory recommended...shop Bought, 16 dollar a gallon... kawi oil.... i replaced the oil filter as well.

also the basket looked fine, nothing too outa shape... everything tight non worn... no missing teeth.
chain is rusted now snice its been outside all winter under a tarp.

thx for fast reply
-john
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-19-2008, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exodusrelic View Post
umm spacing im not really sure what you're asking Phenix_Rider.
on my bike the clutch basket sorta holds all the fibers/plates together in one good patch...sorta.
and they all sit in there, then you screw on the pressure plate, and tighten down the springs/bolts...and cover...

i presoaked the fibers for like 15 hours...overnight and while i was at work. then installed.

the oil, i used factory recommended...shop Bought, 16 dollar a gallon... kawi oil.... i replaced the oil filter as well.

also the basket looked fine, nothing too outa shape... everything tight non worn... no missing teeth.
chain is rusted now snice its been outside all winter under a tarp.

thx for fast reply
-john
I'm not too familiar with clutches on bikes, but don't you have to check the distance between the plates with a feeler gauge? It's good that you changed that oil, but unless you flushed the system there's a chance that you're getting crap from everywhere else coming back to the clutch.

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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-19-2008, 09:44 PM Thread Starter
 
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the distance i believe you're referring too is the sizes of the plates themselves. when you install a new clutch kit you get fibers and plates. and its plates fiber plates fibers...so on... you pile them together into the basket. the sizing is the measurement of the plates... you can usually buy on preference on how you like the toughness of your clutch performance (at least thats how I've come to understand this) the plates you can buy come in .5, .6, .7 mm thickness. and the Haynes says to get 5x .5s and last outer 2 x.7s for factory standard. (which is what i bought and installed)
-john
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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-19-2008, 10:17 PM
 
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Does this bike have a hydraulic clutch or cable operated?

Think about it this way: if the fibers and plates are assembled correctly, and the correct springs are in place and installed correctly, the clutch almost has to work.
The things that would prevent it from working:
Incorrect oil (you said the right oil is in)
Extreme contamination in the oil
No pre-soak of the fibers (you did this, but I usually do at least 24 hrs)
Incorrect assembly (you said you double checked this)
Weak springs (are you SURE they are the right springs)
Interference with the basket (? how did the basket look ?)
Incorrect cable adjustment (if you bike has a hydraulic clutch, ignore this)

Just from what you say about the change in behavior at different temps, the pre-soak of the fibers or weak springs jump out at me.

Keep plugging and let us know what happens. Good luck!
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-19-2008, 10:42 PM Thread Starter
 
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oil is correct, bought from mechanic from shop
new oil, new filter
pre-soak was over 24 hours... i doubled this aswell in assumtion of that being the problem...

assembly is correct, the bike runs, but will not run for more than 30 mins

springs are brand new
basket only old part... looked in good shape though.
hydraulic clutch. i flushed lines and replaced with new fluid.

if that helps any.
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-19-2008, 10:52 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exodusrelic View Post
oil is correct, bought from mechanic from shop
new oil, new filter
pre-soak was over 24 hours... i doubled this aswell in assumtion of that being the problem...

assembly is correct, the bike runs, but will not run for more than 30 mins

springs are brand new
basket only old part... looked in good shape though.
hydraulic clutch. i flushed lines and replaced with new fluid.

if that helps any.
Sorry bout the mix up on the pre-soak. I saw 15 hrs in your earlier post.

The springs are new, but are they the right strength? Weak springs will allow engagement at low temps (read high friction between the oil and clutch), but will fail to hold the plates together at high temps (low friction). Just a thought. Its late and I'm bored. I'm so bored in fact, that I would be happy to tear a clutch apart at this point.
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-19-2008, 11:40 PM
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Do the "fingers" of your clutch basket look ok? Is there any way the plates could be getting caught up on a burr on them or something? Puzzling problem, with what you have replaced and checked already it seems like it should either work or be something obvious as to why its not working. Did you say if any Kawi techs have taken a look at it or not? My only other advice would be to check out some ZX7R forums, if there is any, to see if any other owners have had similar issues.

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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-19-2008, 11:48 PM
 
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Your Haynes manual should have a troubleshooting section. The one for my Honda says to check if any fluid is leaking from the slave cylinder. The slave piston can also stick and fail to return. The clutch center and outer drum could be worn. The plate tangs can dent the channels, but light damage can be fixed with a fine file. Also, a loose clutch nut causes drum and center misalignment.
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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-20-2008, 10:09 PM
 
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I'm thinking along the lines of what No Worries is thinking. if it stops working after 30 mins, look at your slave cylinder. My thinking is, around the 30 min mark, your motor is really warmed up, which may be making your slave cylinder not function properly. possibly something on the slave side is preventing the pushrod from coming back as it should.

if I'm not mistaken, the pushrod for the clutch goes through the case somewhere close to, or under the sprocket cover, which makes me want to suggest just pulling and cleaning everything thoroughly.

A good thorough cleaning couldnt hurt anythign anyhow.
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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-20-2008, 11:04 PM Thread Starter
 
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yes, the push rod is the force that pushes the clutch hub to lift, thus engages the clutch.
i thought this may be a problem too, because i removed this rod while installing the fiber/plate kit to examine it for wear. it looked alright, but i had problems getting it back into its seated posistion.
it was protruding too much and i couldn't get the clutch hub back on, but after messing around with it and moving the clutch some how it went back in. and i got it all back togeather.
what im thinking though is, if this rod could be worn down from use? or maybe something else? i dont understand

also im certain the clutch nut (beastly 32mm) is not loose... in any way.. i tried removal and was unsuccessful to say the least. even with a clutch lock, and 2 ft extension pipe on my bolt breaker x_X
sucker wasn't coming off.
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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-21-2008, 06:59 AM
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This shows what's underneath that nut.
https://www.twowheelforum.com/showthread.php?t=23877

Check This: Hot New Artist Sailing up the charts!

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Quote:
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All riders take risks- what you wear usually reflects your respect for the bike and general knowledge of riding.
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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-25-2008, 04:42 PM Thread Starter
 
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Angry bad to worse

Arrrrgghhhhhh!

I want to take a hammer and smash my kawi to pieces!
Tried to just get the thing running, (i know i know its 30 degrees out, so what!?)
It went from bad to worse.
Battery was dead, of course, so had to move it to the outlet outside and charge it....
but i dropped it.. !!!!!!
in my cursing fit, i just watched the premium gas leak all out of my tank, then i rushed back inside, upstairs to wake up my roommate to help me pick up my heap.

i charged it. started it.
Running rough, so i was messing with the throttle adjustment.... and it decided to fall the off... and the spring and washers just fell all inside crammed into the small crevasses near the alternator.
screw it, im taking this thing to the shop. whatever it costs im so tired of messing with this bike, infact once it is fixed im selling the pos and buying a brand-damn-new gsxr, r6 or zx14.....waiting for summer.

Kawi why did you make your Ninja so ty, yet your Vulcan decent?
i not only am a newb on here, i make newb mistakes.
enjoy my smile graphic filled post.

Last edited by exodusrelic; 01-25-2008 at 04:44 PM.
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post #16 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-25-2008, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exodusrelic View Post
Arrrrgghhhhhh!

I want to take a hammer and smash my kawi to pieces!
Tried to just get the thing running, (i know i know its 30 degrees out, so what!?)
It went from bad to worse.
Battery was dead, of course, so had to move it to the outlet outside and charge it....
but i dropped it.. !!!!!!
in my cursing fit, i just watched the premium gas leak all out of my tank, then i rushed back inside, upstairs to wake up my roommate to help me pick up my heap.

i charged it. started it.
Running rough, so i was messing with the throttle adjustment.... and it decided to fall the off... and the spring and washers just fell all inside crammed into the small crevasses near the alternator.
screw it, im taking this thing to the shop. whatever it costs im so tired of messing with this bike, infact once it is fixed im selling the pos and buying a brand-damn-new gsxr, r6 or zx14.....waiting for summer.

Kawi why did you make your Ninja so ty, yet your Vulcan decent?
i not only am a newb on here, i make newb mistakes.
enjoy my smile graphic filled post.
Don't blame kawasaki- it's your own dumb fault

Sucks man. Get a magnet to grab all those little bits. Should be nice and easy to pick steel off all that aluminum.

Check This: Hot New Artist Sailing up the charts!

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Quote:
Originally Posted by NONE_too_SOFT View Post
All riders take risks- what you wear usually reflects your respect for the bike and general knowledge of riding.
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post #17 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-25-2008, 11:33 PM
 
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If you sell it. PM me with a price on it. I may be into buying it if its not too expensive. but keep working, you're gonna spend thousands getting it fixed at a shop, not worth it. and Kawi makes some GREAT bikes, yours sounds like it was just neglected and abused a lot which made it stop working perfectly.

assuming good maintainence, the ZX models are insanely good bikes.
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