When ordering my springs.. - TwoWheelForum: Motorcycle and Sportbike forums
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post #1 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-22-2005, 12:34 PM Thread Starter
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When ordering my springs..

About to order my fork springs from race tech. What else do I need to get? Some fluid? What kind and weight should I get? What else will I need?

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post #2 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-22-2005, 03:05 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pickle.of.doom
About to order my fork springs from race tech. What else do I need to get? Some fluid? What kind and weight should I get? What else will I need?
Pickle,

We can send you the racetech springs ($100) and can offer our recommendations on installing them and setting up the forks. If you're interested, drop me a line in email or give us quick buzz at the shop.

- Brian Roach
SpeedWerks.com
(302) 730-4650
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post #3 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-22-2005, 03:52 PM
 
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Question Spring rate calcs

Speedworks (Brian),

Do you agree with the spring rate calulators on the racetech website for riders weight as a good guide?

F4i
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post #4 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-22-2005, 04:07 PM
 
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Talking

Pickle for jacking your thread. I was not smart enough to post up on the forum 1st. Must be the squid in me coming through. I ordered heavier springs from Racetech this past weekend. I was going to see what the springs would come with and go from there on seeking assistance.

Just wondering the same things and to see how deep I might have gotten myself in. I did a pretty deep review of the service manual and it looks like I only need to replace a rubber o-ring under the fork bolt. If I only change the springs.

I was planning on using the mfg recommended fork oil, (Honda SS-8- 10W).

F4i
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post #5 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-22-2005, 04:40 PM
 
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F4i -

It's ... usually not too far off. It definatly will be functional. We sometimes will not agree with it simply from our experience in setting up the forks on a particular bike, or if a rider requests a stiff or soft setup for their riding style (I'm the latter - the springs I run in my racebikes are less than what RaceTech would recommend for my weight. I've tried all kinds of different setups over the years, and have really found I like softer springs for my style).

We also adjust oil weight and level, as well as internal spacer length to get the forks to work a bit better (before resorting to revalving).

- Brian Roach
- SpeedWerks.com
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post #6 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-22-2005, 04:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f4ilapper
Just wondering the same things and to see how deep I might have gotten myself in. I did a pretty deep review of the service manual and it looks like I only need to replace a rubber o-ring under the fork bolt. If I only change the springs.
F4i
One thing you need to realize is that you will need to cut the spacers yourself (racetech is going to send you a box with two springs and a length of aluminum spacer). The springs are not going to be the same length as your stock springs ... so you'll need to measure the stock springs and spacers, then cut the new spacers so that the assembled length is the same (springs + spacers).

- Brian Roach
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post #7 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-22-2005, 05:18 PM
 
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Talking Spacers



Brian,

Thanks for the info.

Last year I had a basic setup done trackside by an Ohlins rep. and he cranked the stuff out of the preload it worked great for me much better feel of the track. During the rest of the day I took off about eleven seconds on lap times with the better feel. So I went with Racetech recommendations for a stiffer ride.

When cutting the spacers to size what type of edge condition should I leave, i.e just burr removal or fine sand paper beveled (sp) finish? And would the spacer go in first then the spring on top?

Is the spacer length intuitive, longer spacer equals higher pre-load?

What is the effect of heavier or or lighter fork oil? Does lighter oil equal quicker rebound and less dampening or is that backwards?

If I were to feel that I'm in over my head what would re-spring cost from Speedwerks?

F4i
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post #8 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-22-2005, 05:34 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f4ilapper
When cutting the spacers to size what type of edge condition should I leave, i.e just burr removal or fine sand paper beveled (sp) finish? And would the spacer go in first then the spring on top?
We cut them with a hacksaw with a metal blade, then use a pnumatic wheel with a scotchbrite bad to take off the burrs. A dremel would also work, or a red scotchbrite pad. Sandpaper will tend to tear on the burrs. You don't need to bevel or anything, it's just sitting against the spring. The spacers sit on top of the spring and under the fork cap (you'll see the stock spacer when you open your forks). Just make sure it's a 90 degree cut.

Quote:
Is the spacer length intuitive, longer spacer equals higher pre-load?
Basically, yes. But since you're getting the right springs for your weight, the original assembled length should be good and allow you to get the right sag numbers.

Quote:
What is the effect of heavier or or lighter fork oil? Does lighter oil equal quicker rebound and less dampening or is that backwards?
Exactly - lighter viscosity flows through the valves faster. Stock forks are notorious for having not enough rebound (not all of them, but a good many). Depending on the bike, we do different things. For exmaple ... R6 forks we usually go 20w.

Quote:
If I were to feel that I'm in over my head what would re-spring cost from Speedwerks?
2 hours of labor at $45/hour ... so $90 (plus oil, which is about $8). This also includes Our setup in terms of oil and spacer length, as well as support on dialing them in for the life of the forks, be it on the phone or at the track (you will find that the faster you go, your rebound/compression setup will change - what works at X laptime no longer works at < X laptime - you have to adjust to suit your style, and what the forks are doing)


- Brian Roach
- SpeedWerks.com

Last edited by SpeedWerks.com; 02-22-2005 at 06:45 PM.
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post #9 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-22-2005, 09:52 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedWerks.com
2 hours of labor at $45/hour ... so $90 (plus oil, which is about $8). This also includes Our setup in terms of oil and spacer length, as well as support on dialing them in for the life of the forks, be it on the phone or at the - SpeedWerks.com
So someone could take off their forks, mail them to you, and you would install springs, fork oil, and gold valves for $45/hr?
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post #10 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-22-2005, 10:36 PM
 
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Originally Posted by No Worries
So someone could take off their forks, mail them to you, and you would install springs, fork oil, and gold valves for $45/hr?
That is correct. Our standard labor rate is $45/hr. We're in Dover, DE - low cost of living area (you can still buy a nice house in a nice neighborhood here for under $170k). Even the area dealerships are only at about $60/hr. (In all honesty, we're thinking about raising our rate this year to $50 or $55 - we haven't raised it in 4 years. ). Our regular clientel is from all over the mid-atlantic area (some from farther away) - about 70% of our business is from out-of-state, mainly racers and track-day enthusiasts (that's our specialty). While we could charge more, we've always felt that a fair price goes a long way toward making new customers, and keeping existing ones. If you go a google search for our name, you'll come up with a lot of race results from people who list us as a sponsor.

For suspension, we're an authorized Penske Dealer and Service Center (we sell and rebuild Penske shocks, as well as install their new fork valves), as well as being a RaceTech and Ohlins dealer.

Revalving is usually a 3 hour job if the forks are off the bike (depends on the forks, some are more of a pain than others when you go to de-assemble the cartridge). Most people we don't necessarily recomend valves though, as we can get the stock valving to perform pretty well in most cases for most riders - price vs. performance comes into play - a lot of people really don't need to spend the money for valves.

- Brian Roach
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post #11 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-22-2005, 11:22 PM
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Brian... what would you guys charge to pull forks off a bike and do just a oil change? Just curious... a local shop around here... wants 2 hours (@ $80 a shop hour rate) plus the oil... cheap like $14 for Ohlins fork oil.... so like $175 for ride the bike in and out later in the day...




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post #12 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-23-2005, 07:24 AM
 
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Great thread, but chris be a man and do it yourself. I have your service manual in pdf from and it aint that hard.
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post #13 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-23-2005, 10:04 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gas Man
Brian... what would you guys charge to pull forks off a bike and do just a oil change? Just curious... a local shop around here... wants 2 hours (@ $80 a shop hour rate) plus the oil... cheap like $14 for Ohlins fork oil.... so like $175 for ride the bike in and out later in the day...
Chris -

It honestly is a 1.5 - 2 hour job with the forks on the bike by the time you get done taking everything off (wheel, calipers, fender, bars/clip-ons), pull the forks, change the oil, and put it all back together. It's possible to do it faster, but we tend to double and tripple-check everything - that whole liability issue and all The only diff is here, our labor rate is cheaper.

- Brian Roach
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post #14 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-23-2005, 12:11 PM
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Yeah, I may do it myself and save the labor. Plus I like to learn new things.... just not sure about the measuring of the oil..

Any tips on that???




-Chris
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post #15 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-23-2005, 12:14 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gas Man
Yeah, I may do it myself and save the labor. Plus I like to learn new things.... just not sure about the measuring of the oil..

Any tips on that???
measureing the fork oil is pretty easy, you do it before the spring is installed and they will give you a measurement from the oil to the top of the tube...can use a tube or anything that will suck the fluid out if you over fill it...pretty easy step...
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post #16 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-23-2005, 01:16 PM
 
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Originally Posted by GsxrJack
measureing the fork oil is pretty easy, you do it before the spring is installed and they will give you a measurement from the oil to the top of the tube...can use a tube or anything that will suck the fluid out if you over fill it...pretty easy step...
We have the cool racetech tool, but a turkey baster works in a pinch

- Roach
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post #17 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-26-2005, 10:05 AM
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Attn Twisty!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by twisty
Great thread, but chris be a man and do it yourself. I have your service manual in pdf from and it aint that hard.
How about that PDF file...send it my way Twisty!!!




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post #18 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-26-2005, 10:59 AM
 
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uuummm how much money you got....lol
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post #19 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-26-2005, 06:51 PM
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Well, I would say your MC Show ticket but I already gave it to you!! :dammit:

Um, how about I don't tell your girl about that other weekend...




-Chris
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post #20 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-26-2005, 08:15 PM
 
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LOL funny, If you bring your forks over here and we set them up with new fluid I will give it to you......
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