Carb trouble on ZZR600 - TwoWheelForum: Motorcycle and Sportbike forums
 
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-04-2006, 11:14 AM Thread Starter
 
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Carb trouble on ZZR600

Ok... ever since I got the thing I've noticed it had BAD problems with hesitations and just overall smoothness in the throttle at low RPM's... mainly in 1st under 20mph... also it is a BITCH to start after I've ridden it for a bit... like I'll ride 20 or so miles... stop... go inside for 10-20 mins come back out and I have to crank it over a couple times before it'll stop die'n on me and idle, though even then it idles LOW and rough...

I talked to alot of people and many sudgested Berrymans 12 (I think that's the name) a carb cleaner you put in the gas... well unfortuantly I couldn't find it but Krappa (Nappa) sudgested I use this stuff called Sea Foam... it's supposedly better (according to the krappa guy) so I put about 3/4 of a 18oz bottle in (it said 12oz per 10-12gal of gas)

They told me I wouldn't notice a diffrence in the first tank... that it'd probably have to run through a couple times... anyways... I did notice a diffrence... this morning on the way to work... anytime I tried to pass... the damn thing fell on it's face!... almost like I was out of fuel!... WTF?! it's pissing me off... it seriously takes about a second for the damn thing to respond! it wasn't EVER this bad...

so my question is this... has anyone ever had these problems? have you ever used Berrymans or Sea Foam and is this a common side effect? Or did I put too much/not enough in?

Or is not even my Carbs?!
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-04-2006, 02:15 PM
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-04-2006, 02:27 PM
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Maybe your carbs need to be rejetted? I forget, was this bike new or used to you, was it bought in Alaska, and has it been modified? You said it has always been a problem, just worse now?

The falling on its face now may have to do with the fact that you aren't burning 100% gasoline with the sea foam mixed in, it may get better when you get back to a tank of full gas.

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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-04-2006, 02:33 PM
 
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I haven't found Seafoam to be a problem and it does clean the system out...Perhaps your fuel filter is full of s**t.

Have you checked the timing? In many of my Carbed vehicles...If the timing was the slightest bit off, they would be hard to start after running and hot, and they would hesitate at the low RPMs below the power band...
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-04-2006, 03:19 PM Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bumblebee
I haven't found Seafoam to be a problem and it does clean the system out...Perhaps your fuel filter is full of s**t.
I think I'm gonna replace it this weekend just incase... err... now just need to find out WHERE it is...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bumblebee
Have you checked the timing? In many of my Carbed vehicles...If the timing was the slightest bit off, they would be hard to start after running and hot, and they would hesitate at the low RPMs below the power band...
this sounds EXACLTLY like what I have... but I thought they checked the timing in my 600 mile checkup when I got it... I'll have to look back through my records...

Thanks BEE
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-04-2006, 03:32 PM Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pickle.of.doom
Maybe your carbs need to be rejetted? I forget, was this bike new or used to you, was it bought in Alaska, and has it been modified? You said it has always been a problem, just worse now?

The falling on its face now may have to do with the fact that you aren't burning 100% gasoline with the sea foam mixed in, it may get better when you get back to a tank of full gas.
the bike is Used... it had 618 miles on it when I bought it... it had sat for 4months so I'm sure the carbs are a bit gummed up... and yes it was bought here in Alaska... it's stock. and yes... it's always been hesitant at low RPM's since I got it... I could never really be smooth with it below 25... but NOW it's hesitating ANYTIME I accelerate... hard or a slow roll on!... I just went to lunch and it's really anoy'n... I was gonna try and wait untill after I got back from Iraq... but I can't stand to ride it the way it's acting...
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-04-2006, 11:38 PM
 
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Those fuel cleaners work ok on cars with their bigger jets, but motorcycle carbs, with idle jets the thickness of a human hair have to be cleaned by hand. There ain't no way around it.

The problem is in the carbs, but only part of the problem is in the fuel section. In the float chamber, the idle jets have to be cleaned with carb spray as well as the fuel mixture passages. Fuel flows from the float chamber in the bottom of the carb, to the middle part of the carb where it is sucked into the cylinders.

But it's the top part of the carb, under the vacuum chamber, that controls from above idle to top speed. The diaphram moves the piston/needle out of the main jet to supply fuel during this transition. The difference in air pressure draws up this piston/needle. Any sticky-ness whatsoever, will delay the movement of the piston. Yours, I'm afraid are very sticky.

You could dump carb cleaner in the carb until the world ends and none will clean that piston. The vacuum chamber cover has to come off and the pistons cleaned. Check out this thread:https://www.twowheelforum.com/showthread.php?t=7429
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-05-2006, 09:14 AM
 
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sounds like a man who learned this lesson the old fashioned way...
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-06-2006, 09:32 PM
 
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DUDE, go back to the thread you started about the exhaust recomendations for this bike, you could even go back to the threads I started when I was where you are now!...In short...even if you keep every thing stock you must set your float/fuel level!!!! Mine was set way way high,they almost couldn't be any higher,see,the dealer where you bought it won't see this as warranty issues they'll just tell you that what you want is to get performance work done,at least that's what I would think,I din't bother to take it because I don't think there would be anyone with the experience (that I now have) to diagnose and fine tune these carbs.I can almost garantee you dont need to pour any fuel additives or s**tcan the filter!!! Here's what I had to do,again,don't pay attention to my other perf.modifications...I lowered the fuel level to factory specs-around 7 mm,wen't up one size on the pilot jets-to 15's and went up to main jet sizes-157.5 for cyl.2 and 3,and 160 for cyl.1 and 4,set idle speed,set my mixture screws to best/smoothest idle AT PROPER TEMP.-around 200 deg. ,set idle speed again. This should get you ballpark,if not so close you'll be happy enough to leave it there. Now if your not comfortable with doin this your self then take this info to your mechanic and have him check these things,this eng. has almost 13 to 1 compression ratio if things are off a little bit rich or lean your gonna feel it!!! I know it's hard to beleive all this needs to be done to a brand new bike just to get it to run right but ... I've done it! Keep me/us posted!!!
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-06-2006, 09:43 PM
 
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No Worries,and others... I don't mean to "poo poo" your suggestions,I just want to offer up my experiences with the same bike,I know it gets to be nerve racking! I could be wrong,hey, I always say in the technician world you can never say "oh that can't be"
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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-06-2006, 09:54 PM
 
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BTW...timing is done via a reluctor wheel and pickup and is electronic
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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-07-2006, 12:26 AM Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEKYLL
DUDE, go back to the thread you started about the exhaust recomendations for this bike, you could even go back to the threads I started when I was where you are now!...In short...even if you keep every thing stock you must set your float/fuel level!!!! Mine was set way way high,they almost couldn't be any higher,see,the dealer where you bought it won't see this as warranty issues they'll just tell you that what you want is to get performance work done,at least that's what I would think,I din't bother to take it because I don't think there would be anyone with the experience (that I now have) to diagnose and fine tune these carbs.I can almost garantee you dont need to pour any fuel additives or s**tcan the filter!!! Here's what I had to do,again,don't pay attention to my other perf.modifications...I lowered the fuel level to factory specs-around 7 mm,wen't up one size on the pilot jets-to 15's and went up to main jet sizes-157.5 for cyl.2 and 3,and 160 for cyl.1 and 4,set idle speed,set my mixture screws to best/smoothest idle AT PROPER TEMP.-around 200 deg. ,set idle speed again. This should get you ballpark,if not so close you'll be happy enough to leave it there. Now if your not comfortable with doin this your self then take this info to your mechanic and have him check these things,this eng. has almost 13 to 1 compression ratio if things are off a little bit rich or lean your gonna feel it!!! I know it's hard to beleive all this needs to be done to a brand new bike just to get it to run right but ... I've done it! Keep me/us posted!!!
No I wasn't ignoring what you were saying... but a guy I worked with sudgested I try that carb cleaner... so having nothing to loose I did... it was the fact that it got loose that made me wonder...

I'll have my shop adjust them like you said... but probably not untill I get back... but it'll probably next SUMMER before I get to ride it again...

thanks for the help though bro
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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-07-2006, 06:26 AM
 
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What do you mean loose???



Well I am off to work-goin early to test out the new adjustments seems to be runnin perfect now! Good luck w/ yours!!!
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