[oldetymebiker]

My sister is a lefty/commie(literally)/tree hugger Know-It-All, with multiple degrees, and she really is very "smart" IQ wise.... that being said, she lacks, uhmmm, how shall we say, Good Sense.

We recently had a "discussion" (argument) about SUV's, freedom of choice, the environmental movement, and "ecologically friendly" energy sources...if she had here way, we'd all be driving "solar" cars that don't exist or taking mass transit (it's more socially democratic, don't you know).uke:

We then got into a discussion about alternative energy sources, and when I pointed out to her that the environmentalist wackos were now trying to shut down the wind farms in West-By-God Virginia and Maryland 'cause it was hurting the bat populations, she didn't believe me.

http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=18432

Ethanol Fuel
http://www.cleanairchoice.org/outdoor/E85benefits.asp

When I told her that "clean, renewable energy" from ethanol was a myth, that the distillation process alone consumes more energy than it releases (contributing to more pollution)she began to splutter, and when I told her that when you factor in the energy required to farm, harvest and process the corn, you got a 70% net LOSS in energy, she stomped out of the room.

http://www.econbrowser.com/archives...nol_clouds.html

It's ok in my book to be "environmentally concerned", everybody should be concerned with flagrant waste, but it seems to me that, when you want to develop policy, it might behove folks to look at the whole picture, rather than just embracing what "sounds good" or is popular. Smug, simple assertions pi$$ me off!
__________________
Wisdom is knowing the difference between being persistent and being a slow learner.

 

[jeeps84]

Are you sure you want to get into this debate?
Lets just say I do what I can not to waste. Who can afford it? I'm not selling my gas guzzlers just to be concretive or quit my pointless motorcycle rides to do so either. I do turn off lights in rooms not in use. I do regulate my heat and AC for not at home time. I most definitely do what I can to save fuel on my job also. The money saved goes back in my pocket to pay for those pointless motorcycle rides.

I guess you know where I stand now.

 

[oldetymebiker]

..... The money saved goes back in my pocket to pay for those pointless motorcycle rides.

.....Exactly!!

 

[ebbs15]

there are alot of people I met in cali that were the same way... we'd get talking about this and that and they'd state their opinion... then halfway through the disscussion they'd flip flop because they didn't really understand what they were "Believing"...

It seems people have to have an opinion on everything... but don't have the time or the iniclination to decide for themselves... so the accept the first thing that's thrown at them...

 

[itgirl25]

OTB...it sounds like you really put her in her place. good for you! :dthumb:

 

[Back _Marker]

hydrogen combustion engines...
that's were it's at

http://www.bmwworld.com/hydrogen/h2r_racer.htm

-a|ex

 

[oldetymebiker]

hydrogen combustion engines...
that's were it's at

http://www.bmwworld.com/hydrogen/h2r_racer.htm

-a|ex

UNfortunately, "cracking" hydrogen from water TAKES more energy than it produces. You can't fight physics. Entropy is the problem, as is the fact of practical engineering efficiencies, where calorie efficiencies of 14-18% are considered "good"; not finding a better "technique".

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/Hbase/thermo/electrol.html

 

[Back _Marker]

UNfortunately, "cracking" hydrogen from water TAKES more energy than it produces. You can't fight physics. Entropy is the problem, as is the fact of practical engineering efficiencies, where calorie efficiencies of 14-18% are considered "good"; not finding a better "technique".

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/Hbase/thermo/electrol.html

solar farms can power the hydrogen production in quantities..
but i am for nuclear power plants. radioactive waste gives off energy, so why not harness that energy, eh?
the safety issue for nuclear plants depends on which isotope is used. one is safe for the environment and the other is used for producing weapons quality by-products.

another consideration: solar farms in the ocean (flexible panels floating on the water surface). or even ocean waves that are used to generate electricity. i think the latest energy source is algae... http://www.energybulletin.net/1330.html

http://www.energybulletin.net/12875.html
just found this one, byproducts from refineries being used to extract hydrogen to power a hydrogen power plant in california

-a|ex

 

[ebbs15]

solar farms can power the hydrogen production in quantities..
but i am for nuclear power plants. radioactive waste gives off energy, so why not harness that energy, eh?
the safety issue for nuclear plants depends on which isotope is used. one is safe for the environment and the other is used for producing weapons quality by-products.

another consideration: solar farms in the ocean (flexible panels floating on the water surface). or even ocean waves that are used to generate electricity. i think the latest energy source is algae... http://www.energybulletin.net/1330.html


-a|ex

:readng: ouch... my head hurts:lol:

 

[Gas Man]

Regardless...the ethynol is going to be the wave of the future... The problem is that the tractors used to farm the corn burns alot of diesel fuel.

 

[jeeps84]

Regardless...the ethynol is going to be the wave of the future... The problem is that the tractors used to farm the corn burns alot of diesel fuel.

Everything comes in full circle. You use to save. No matter what you do.:crazy:

 

[pickle.of.doom]

Why did they just lift the requirement of current gasoline to have a certain percentage of ethanol then?

 

[Gas Man]

They didn't lift anything. It is up to the gas station and gas tank farm in which the wholesaler is buying the gas. If you use the ethanol everybody gets a tax break on it.

I'll throw something else at ya... Many companies now inject Butane into the gasoline!! :yikes:

 

[jeeps84]

Many companies now inject Butane into the gasoline!! :yikes:

Hotter burn for crappy fuel.

 

[Gas Man]

Nope...not at all... its all $$$.

Then can blend the Butane into the gasoline and they buy the Butane for WAY cheaper than gasoline. So if they blend 5 gallons of butane into 125 gallons of gas... They pay $0.20 per gallon for the butane and sell it as gasoline at $1.75 a gallon... do that ratio over hundreds of thousands of barrels (which is 42 gallons per barrel)... DO THE MATH!

 

[jeeps84]

Its still has to be hotter and cleaner burning.

 

[Gas Man]

Oh yeah...that too!

 

[drewpy]

im going for degree in water resources and envirometal biology and i love when greenies get toastes when they dont know what they are talking about radicals are radicals no matter what the topic

 

[Trip]

I will never go too far from mother nuke.

 

[R1up0n1]

Lets just say I do what I can not to waste. Who can afford it? I'm not selling my gas guzzlers just to be concretive or quit my pointless motorcycle rides to do so either. I do turn off lights in rooms not in use. I do regulate my heat and AC for not at home time. I most definitely do what I can to save fuel on my job also. The money saved goes back in my pocket to pay for those pointless motorcycle rides.

:iagree: