Where do you buy all this from? It's all little mom and pop facilities. That amount of monetary loss is not nearly even close to the amount of money saved in gas and time by having a quicker route available to commercial vehicles. The economy you are talking about is almost worthless to the companies that would use it as an interstate. You are talking pennies vs billions. You would still have restaurants and gas stations along the route. Even as a tourist attraction, the dragon does not do much at all economically to what it competes against in the vacinity of it. If we left our hobby out of this and looked at this from a completely economical view; the state, the surrounding area, and the federal government would benefit more from an interstate than a tourist destination. Plus, big business runs this country and could easily push this route if they wanted it. You are kidding yourself if you think a bunch of mom and pop stores could stop them. Hell, the government allows private industry to take your home if it is for the betterment of the area and an interstate would be way beyond justified to use imminent domain.
help save the dragon/GAP... Sign the petition at the bottom of the first post!
Opposition lines road to proposed interstates
Tom Baxter - Staff
Monday, August 22, 2005
Robbinsville, N.C. --- This far-western corner of North Carolina is home to an assortment of folks who have only a few things in common. One of them is a deepening opposition to an interstate highway project that has been proposed as a fix for Atlanta's traffic problems and a boon to rural development.
"This is a small area dedicated mostly to naturalists and motorcyclists. The naturalists stay off the roads, and the motorcyclists stay out of the woods," said Ben Steinberg, who handles public relations for the Deal's Gap Motorcycle Court.
It's one of several businesses along U.S. 129 that cater to the bikers who have been coming here from around the world since the early 1930s to ride the Tail of the Dragon, a tortuously twisted 11-mile stretch of the road that skirts the southwest corner of the Great Smoky Mountains National Park.
U.S. 129 is in one of the proposed paths of I-3, which would connect Savannah with Knoxville. Congress earlier this month appropriated $1.2 million in the federal highway bill to study the feasibility of building I-3 and a companion road, I-14, which would run from Savannah to Natchez, Miss.
Steinberg opposes I-3, dismayed at the thought of what he calls "the equivalent of Mecca" for bikers being four-laned and straightened.
A couple of miles away, as the crow flies, horticulturist Robin Suggs raises black cohosh, boneset, false unicorn root and a couple of dozen other native plants on a 32-acre farm --- medicinal herbs that are difficult to grow but thrive here. He also worries that the interstate and the development that would come with it could play havoc in an area where the rugged topography and weather have helped create one of the most biodiverse spots on the continent.
"At what cost does this type of progress come, and is it really progress?" Suggs asked.
Backers: Roads biofriendly
But John Stone, spokesman for Rep. Charles Norwood (R-Ga.), argues that the roads would actually help the environment. On a typical summer day, he said, the air quality in the Smokies is already worse than Atlanta's, in part because winds carry the fumes of Atlanta's traffic jams northward to the mountains.
He and other highway supporters contend that building the highways would untangle the interstate spider's web, which has Atlanta at its center. It would make it feasible for the first time to drive via interstate highway from Augusta to Savannah, or Chicago to Florida, without negotiating the Atlanta maze.
"All the traffic coming through our state is flushed through [I-] 285 every day at rush hour," Stone said.
So far, there's no formal research to back the supporters' claims about the impact the interstates could have on metro Atlanta. That's one of the issues the feasibility study is supposed to address. But for many of those in the mountains I-3 would cross, no benefit to Atlanta justifies an interstate in their back yard.
"A lot of us who live up here are just appalled anybody would think about using the mountains to solve Atlanta's traffic problems," said John Clarke, a carpenter in Hayesville, N.C., who chairs the Clay/Cherokee County chapter of the Stop I-3 Coalition.
Supporters of the project have suggested alternate routes through the mountains, but there are only a few places where an interstate could be built without great cost, and opposition in North Georgia and North Carolina is spreading rapidly under the coalition's banner.
In the speed with which it has used the Internet to organize opponents over a large area, the Stop I-3 Coalition bears more than a passing resemblance to the movement which arose against the proposed Northern Arc --- a metro Atlanta beltline highway that would have connected Cartersville to Lawrenceville --- and succeeded in bringing that project to a halt in 2004.
Perdue mum on stance
The Georgia Legislature this year appropriated $100,000 for the Interstate Highway Development Association, headed by former Rep. Max Burns' staffer Allen Muldrew, to promote the proposal. But Gov. Sonny Perdue said last week he isn't taking sides until the study has been done.
The Habersham, Rabun and White County commissions have passed resolutions opposing I-3, and at a public meeting earlier this month, Norwood, Stone's boss, appeared to be shifting on the issue, saying he would follow the wishes of the majority in his district.
Former Georgia Sen. Zell Miller, one of the original co-sponsors of the proposal along with Burns, said last week it was his understanding that the interstate proposal was advanced largely as a means to get a much more limited interstate between Savannah and Augusta.
"I will be long dead and gone before I-3 ever gets to Toccoa, if it even does," Miller said, referring to a North Georgia town on the proposed route.
Stone said last week the feasibility study might determine that I-3 doesn't need to go all the way to Knoxville. Other ideas include having it connect with I-85 near Lake Hartwell. The plan to run I-14 slightly south of Macon and Columbus also could be changed to put the road slightly north of those cities, he said.
"From the get-go, we've said it's going to be fairly easy to run I-14 where it's going, and it's not going to be hard to run I-3 from Savannah up through Augusta. The really hard part is what to do with it up in the mountains," Stone said.
Burns, a Republican who lost his west Georgia congressional seat last year to Democrat John Barrow, said the original idea for the two interstates sprang from a study of Black Belt poverty commissioned by Miller and conducted by the University of Georgia's Carl Vinson Institute. I-14 would follow a path across the Black Belt through Georgia, Alabama and Mississippi.
No opposition to I-14
No organized opposition to the proposed I-14 has emerged so far, although some environmentalists have raised questions about the route through one of Georgia's three surviving bear habitats in the Ocmulgee River area.
Besides alleviating Atlanta's traffic, Burns maintains the interstates would bring economic benefits to rural areas that have lagged behind Atlanta and other thriving Southern cities. Some businesses that would benefit from more trucking routes, including Atlanta-based Home Depot and Knoxville-based Goody's Family Clothing, have endorsed the interstate proposal.
"You come back to the fundamental fact that most of the development takes place along the interstate corridors," said Burns, who now works in Washington for Thelen, Reid & Priest, a national law firm specializing in government infrastructure contracts and construction projects.
Barrow has endorsed his former opponent's proposal, but Burns, who is planning another bid for Congress, has remained close to the effort, monitoring its progress through his Republican colleague, Rep. Lynn Westmoreland, who sits on the House Transportation Committee. Burns says it's "very premature" for local governments to be passing resolutions before a study is done to judge the project's merits. But opponents already have a busy schedule of public meetings planned in Georgia and North Carolina, and another road battle seems well under way.
http://www.petitiononline.com/pplvshwy/petition.html
Tom Baxter - Staff
Monday, August 22, 2005
Robbinsville, N.C. --- This far-western corner of North Carolina is home to an assortment of folks who have only a few things in common. One of them is a deepening opposition to an interstate highway project that has been proposed as a fix for Atlanta's traffic problems and a boon to rural development.
"This is a small area dedicated mostly to naturalists and motorcyclists. The naturalists stay off the roads, and the motorcyclists stay out of the woods," said Ben Steinberg, who handles public relations for the Deal's Gap Motorcycle Court.
It's one of several businesses along U.S. 129 that cater to the bikers who have been coming here from around the world since the early 1930s to ride the Tail of the Dragon, a tortuously twisted 11-mile stretch of the road that skirts the southwest corner of the Great Smoky Mountains National Park.
U.S. 129 is in one of the proposed paths of I-3, which would connect Savannah with Knoxville. Congress earlier this month appropriated $1.2 million in the federal highway bill to study the feasibility of building I-3 and a companion road, I-14, which would run from Savannah to Natchez, Miss.
Steinberg opposes I-3, dismayed at the thought of what he calls "the equivalent of Mecca" for bikers being four-laned and straightened.
A couple of miles away, as the crow flies, horticulturist Robin Suggs raises black cohosh, boneset, false unicorn root and a couple of dozen other native plants on a 32-acre farm --- medicinal herbs that are difficult to grow but thrive here. He also worries that the interstate and the development that would come with it could play havoc in an area where the rugged topography and weather have helped create one of the most biodiverse spots on the continent.
"At what cost does this type of progress come, and is it really progress?" Suggs asked.
Backers: Roads biofriendly
But John Stone, spokesman for Rep. Charles Norwood (R-Ga.), argues that the roads would actually help the environment. On a typical summer day, he said, the air quality in the Smokies is already worse than Atlanta's, in part because winds carry the fumes of Atlanta's traffic jams northward to the mountains.
He and other highway supporters contend that building the highways would untangle the interstate spider's web, which has Atlanta at its center. It would make it feasible for the first time to drive via interstate highway from Augusta to Savannah, or Chicago to Florida, without negotiating the Atlanta maze.
"All the traffic coming through our state is flushed through [I-] 285 every day at rush hour," Stone said.
So far, there's no formal research to back the supporters' claims about the impact the interstates could have on metro Atlanta. That's one of the issues the feasibility study is supposed to address. But for many of those in the mountains I-3 would cross, no benefit to Atlanta justifies an interstate in their back yard.
"A lot of us who live up here are just appalled anybody would think about using the mountains to solve Atlanta's traffic problems," said John Clarke, a carpenter in Hayesville, N.C., who chairs the Clay/Cherokee County chapter of the Stop I-3 Coalition.
Supporters of the project have suggested alternate routes through the mountains, but there are only a few places where an interstate could be built without great cost, and opposition in North Georgia and North Carolina is spreading rapidly under the coalition's banner.
In the speed with which it has used the Internet to organize opponents over a large area, the Stop I-3 Coalition bears more than a passing resemblance to the movement which arose against the proposed Northern Arc --- a metro Atlanta beltline highway that would have connected Cartersville to Lawrenceville --- and succeeded in bringing that project to a halt in 2004.
Perdue mum on stance
The Georgia Legislature this year appropriated $100,000 for the Interstate Highway Development Association, headed by former Rep. Max Burns' staffer Allen Muldrew, to promote the proposal. But Gov. Sonny Perdue said last week he isn't taking sides until the study has been done.
The Habersham, Rabun and White County commissions have passed resolutions opposing I-3, and at a public meeting earlier this month, Norwood, Stone's boss, appeared to be shifting on the issue, saying he would follow the wishes of the majority in his district.
Former Georgia Sen. Zell Miller, one of the original co-sponsors of the proposal along with Burns, said last week it was his understanding that the interstate proposal was advanced largely as a means to get a much more limited interstate between Savannah and Augusta.
"I will be long dead and gone before I-3 ever gets to Toccoa, if it even does," Miller said, referring to a North Georgia town on the proposed route.
Stone said last week the feasibility study might determine that I-3 doesn't need to go all the way to Knoxville. Other ideas include having it connect with I-85 near Lake Hartwell. The plan to run I-14 slightly south of Macon and Columbus also could be changed to put the road slightly north of those cities, he said.
"From the get-go, we've said it's going to be fairly easy to run I-14 where it's going, and it's not going to be hard to run I-3 from Savannah up through Augusta. The really hard part is what to do with it up in the mountains," Stone said.
Burns, a Republican who lost his west Georgia congressional seat last year to Democrat John Barrow, said the original idea for the two interstates sprang from a study of Black Belt poverty commissioned by Miller and conducted by the University of Georgia's Carl Vinson Institute. I-14 would follow a path across the Black Belt through Georgia, Alabama and Mississippi.
No opposition to I-14
No organized opposition to the proposed I-14 has emerged so far, although some environmentalists have raised questions about the route through one of Georgia's three surviving bear habitats in the Ocmulgee River area.
Besides alleviating Atlanta's traffic, Burns maintains the interstates would bring economic benefits to rural areas that have lagged behind Atlanta and other thriving Southern cities. Some businesses that would benefit from more trucking routes, including Atlanta-based Home Depot and Knoxville-based Goody's Family Clothing, have endorsed the interstate proposal.
"You come back to the fundamental fact that most of the development takes place along the interstate corridors," said Burns, who now works in Washington for Thelen, Reid & Priest, a national law firm specializing in government infrastructure contracts and construction projects.
Barrow has endorsed his former opponent's proposal, but Burns, who is planning another bid for Congress, has remained close to the effort, monitoring its progress through his Republican colleague, Rep. Lynn Westmoreland, who sits on the House Transportation Committee. Burns says it's "very premature" for local governments to be passing resolutions before a study is done to judge the project's merits. But opponents already have a busy schedule of public meetings planned in Georgia and North Carolina, and another road battle seems well under way.
http://www.petitiononline.com/pplvshwy/petition.html
41 - 60 of 66 Posts
Oh, Im sorry, I didn't know TN was in such great financial shape that it could just throw money away.... 
If you think the interstate would bring in less money than the Gap. You are kidding yourself.Oh, Im sorry, I didn't know TN was in such great financial shape that it could just throw money away....
It's like mom and pop vs wal-mart. We all know who wins... Did you take basic economics in school?
To get more votes I imagine :idk:Why did someone dig up this old post. :idk:
Right, but to have both would be win-win situation, and like you said, they will probably figure out a way to have both anyway.
They have alternate routes in the plan, it is not the only route. Last map I saw had at least 2 that wouldn't interfere with the dragon. Enviromentalists are pushing to keep it further south away from the dragon because the dragon borders the edge of the national park which has a huge pollution problem. I don't see this effecting us for a long time to come even if it stays on the dragon's route. I think we will have to worry about overflow from the other tourist destinations around it before the interstate. Which would be just as bad to sit in bumper to bumper traffic on one of the best roads in America.Right, but to have both would be win-win situation, and like you said, they will probably figure out a way to have both anyway.
True true, but at least then there's always the 5:30 am waiting for first light ride, before all the traffic sets in. We are thinking of hitting that Georgia Loop that was recently in that Iteam report next time we take a trip down that way. Ever gone there?
In a car, Blood Mountain is fast and curvy. Never been down there on bike though. Last year was my first season, so I didn't tempt fate too much. Took it easy and learned basics.True true, but at least then there's always the 5:30 am waiting for first light ride, before all the traffic sets in. We are thinking of hitting that Georgia Loop that was recently in that Iteam report next time we take a trip down that way. Ever gone there?
the loop is cool I grew up in fannin county so highway 60 is the first road i ever rode or drove on. the dragon is safe they discuss the inerstate here all the time
my local congressman zach wamp is a huge proponet of it but it has yet to be proven enviromently feasible so some laws will have to change for it to happen.
funny to think of bikers and granola eaters on the same side.
my local congressman zach wamp is a huge proponet of it but it has yet to be proven enviromently feasible so some laws will have to change for it to happen.
funny to think of bikers and granola eaters on the same side.
Yeah, I think the enviromentalists have more of a argument than bikers too. The bikers should go in from the same angle as not to pollute the smokies even further because it has a stronger argument to it than we want to keep this twisty road as a public racetrack for tourists.the loop is cool I grew up in fannin county so highway 60 is the first road i ever rode or drove on. the dragon is safe they discuss the inerstate here all the time
my local congressman zach wamp is a huge proponet of it but it has yet to be proven enviromently feasible so some laws will have to change for it to happen.
funny to think of bikers and granola eaters on the same side.
:iagree: I never even looked at it from a tourist POV for enjoying the road as a road.Yeah, I think the enviromentalists have more of a argument than bikers too. The bikers should go in from the same angle as not to pollute the smokies even further because it has a stronger argument to it than we want to keep this twisty road as a public racetrack for tourists.
:dthumb: just joined & im # 3937:cheers:
Signed n sealed :cheers:
Is Deal's Gap even worth going to now? A lot of people I have talked to said it sucks because it's full of weekend warrior Harley and BMW riders who put around. And that the place is swamped with cops. They all now ride the Suches and Dahlonoga loop and say they like it much better.
And what did the original poster do to get banned?
And what did the original poster do to get banned?
Don't come to the gap and tell all your friends not to come to the gap. Stay away for at least 10 years.Is Deal's Gap even worth going to now? A lot of people I have talked to said it sucks because it's full of weekend warrior Harley and BMW riders who put around. And that the place is swamped with cops. They all now ride the Suches and Dahlonoga loop and say they like it much better.
And what did the original poster do to get banned?
Yeah so all the businesses close down and they can build the highway. Tourism is a necessary evil at these kinds of places.Don't come to the gap and tell all your friends not to come to the gap. Stay away for at least 10 years.
I remember awhile getting told im idiot about the idea that the state would want to put a highway there. Doesnt sound so stupid now huh?
can we get a update about what is going on down there?
yeah that way trip and kyle (i think) can have it to themselves.Don't come to the gap and tell all your friends not to come to the gap. Stay away for at least 10 years.
If they want the interstate through there, it is going to come tourism or not. Tennessee doesn't give a s**t about the drop in a bucket the dragon brings in tourism when just under an hour away they have 8 lanes of highway bumper to bumper for miles filled with tourists bringing in enormous amounts of cash for the state. The dragon brings in very little money to Tennessee, it is more of a concern to rural NC folks. The only thing that can come even close to stopping it, is the national park stepping in and not wanting another major interstate bordering the park and destroying it even more due to the pollution.Yeah so all the businesses close down and they can build the highway. Tourism is a necessary evil at these kinds of places.
I remember awhile getting told im idiot about the idea that the state would want to put a highway there. Doesnt sound so stupid now huh?
Not worth the trip if you are wanting to ride the dragon at a semi decent pace during daylight hours. They have been known to be there from 8am to 8pm pretty much now.Drewpy said:can we get a update about what is going on down there?
Actually, so the cops have it to themselves and run their budget f**king dry by not giving them reasons to write tickets.trock said:yeah that way trip and kyle (i think) can have it to themselves.
41 - 60 of 66 Posts
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