Octane ratings
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I never go anywhere but Sunoco for gas around here..lots of little convenience store's with "their brand of gas"...YUCK...heck, even HESS, has pretty crappy gas overall around here at least, even the higher octane is junk most of the time. I got a batch of bad HESS gas in my 83 Yamaha, what a pain, stutters worse than a contestant on the jerry springer show :shock:
I use minimum 89 octane (depends on how much cash I have on me since I try to stay away from credit cards) , but normally 92...just to be safe.
I use minimum 89 octane (depends on how much cash I have on me since I try to stay away from credit cards) , but normally 92...just to be safe.
Joined
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39,300 Posts
Gas Man checking in...If you want to know about gas I have more info on it than you probably want to know. I could post a previous email I sent out to a different group. If you guys would like to know more. There are many common miss-beliefs about gas. Let me know, and I straight out some of those ideas...ShanMan14 said:
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9,257 Posts
yeah, definately..inquiring minds want to know.. 
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39,300 Posts
Alright listen up guys...but this is going to get real long and you may see names of people and places that you don't know. There may also be differences in gas stations and oil companies depending on where you are at. However, you may still walk away with some more knowledge on this coplicated industry. It isn't as simple as you may think....It is real long but go for it. If you guys have any questions, let me know and I'll do my best to answer them. My knowledge of this stuff comes from working in the oil industry, so needless to say I'm not just some drive mechanic just blabbin some BS. Let me know what you think....
*************************
>
> I'll give you Paul, Mr Haz Gixxer, Randall, and
> everybody else that cares more about the quality
> than
> the price.
>
> First off, if you want to bitch about the price STOP
> buying Speedway. They are the ones that control the
> price. They are the first to go up and then
> everybody
> else follows because why not, why not make more
> money
> off the pump. The problem is there is no reason
> for
> it. The price of the gas at the tank terminal only
> flexes by about $0.05, that's from its lowest to
> highest. So it might go up a penny at the tank but
> .15 at the pump. Also, Marathon owns speedway, it's
> their generic gas station.
>
> Which brings us Generic vs Branded gas. Like the
> old
> saying "don't buy gas from a gas station that
> doesn't
> hold the name of the refinery". The gas it self is
> the same UNTIL it is put into the semi truck to be
> hauled to the gas station. What happens is that the
> actual gas gets a additive injected into while it
> fills the semi. This is where the differences
> start.
>
> Generic is gas such as Speedway, KMart, Wal Mart,
> Sams, Admiral, Clark, Rich, Meijer, and many others
> that aren't list in the next list. The generic gas
> comes from Mobil, and Marathon gas tank terminals
> but
> again changes with the additives.
>
> BRANDED is Mobil, Marathon, BP (use to be Amoco),
> Sunoco, Shell. Side note, there use to be BP &
> Amoco.
> BP (British Petrl) bought Amoco (American Oil
> Company).
>
> The govt says that all these oil companies have to
> add
> "additives". The additives have different chemicals
> but mostly the same. The additives contain fuel
> milage enhancers, cleaners, evironmental crap and
> other good **** that your motor likes. The cleaners
> are good for your motor, duh! However, if the govt
> says you must inject "1" (I don't mean 1 additive I
> mean just 1 as a unit)that's all the generic gas'
> gets. However, the Branded gas inject 3 times that
> amount. This is to ensure that their gas performs
> better than the generic gas. HERE'S WHERE THE GAS
> STARTS GETTING MORE DIFFERENT.
>
> Branded GAS + 3 additive = Good GAS
>
> Then you have GAS + 1 additive(generic) + ethynol =
> generic gas. Which brings us to ethynol.
>
> This is something that the govt is pushing onto the
> oil companies. It is acholhol. The oil company
> such
> as Marathon gets a BIG tax break for using it in
> their
> generic gas. They get a tax break at the tank
> terminal, and the gas station. Here's the incentive
> for using it. It helps the gas burn MORE therefor
> cleaner. Cleaner means better for the tree huggers.
> Now they don't inj. ethynol into the branded gas.
>
> Now cleaner burn also means cleaner gas tank. Just
> think about it, you can clean stuff with acholhol.
> When the semi's are hauling all branded gas they get
> a
> type of "non-luster" to the inside of their
> trailers.
> Then they haul some ethynol inj. gas and from
> driving
> down the road (splish splash) gets the inside of the
> trailer all clean. Now we have all heard of these
> guys saying, I put that ethynol injected crap gas
> into
> my "car/truck/bike" and it ****ed it up. The
> problem
> is that the ethynol has cleaned out the gas tank and
> all that crud and crap has crapped up their gas
> filter
> and maybe injectors. You also may hear about it
> drying out o-rings and such. I try to use it
> everyonce and a while to keep everything clean and
> shinny but not all time.
>
> Bottom line....
>
> Generic gas gives you less good stuff plus ethynol.
>
> Branded gas gives you 3 times good stuff and no
> ethynol.
>
> Now I try to use Mobil, Marathon, BP, or Sunoco.
> Usually in that order. Then if all else fails
> Speedway...I generally stay away from anything else.
>
>
> Now this is not every bit of info on the subject but
> a
> desent low down. If you have any questions just let
> me know. I think that makes sense. There are more
> in's and out's to all of this but it's getting kind
> of
> long.
*************************************
***Another guys asks********
Mobil, Marathon, BP, or Sunoco...........
>
> WHY THAT ORDER?????
***************************************
Mobil because I know the way they keep up their
products in their tanks...Why because I do their tank
changes in Flint and know what their specifications
are on what they do and don't put in their tanks.
Marathon after that because I know what type of
product that the refinery in Detroit puts out. Good
stuff. However, I also know that Marathon will
"bubble" their gas in the winter with Butane. Mobil
does not!
I guess Marathon and Mobil can be interchanged as far
as their level of quality. See all the product in
Oakland, and Wayne county (as far as Mobil and
Marathon) comes out of 2 tank farms. Mobil comes
from West Rd. in Woodhaven. Marathon comes the
refinery/tank farm in Detroit.
As far as BP and Sunoco... I know how they make their
tank changes at their tank farms and that they just
don't run their biz as well as Mobil or Marathon.
Sunoco is also under going some company wide changes
with their truckers and operators (what I do). They
are putting these truckers info operators positions
purely based on seniority and not qualifications.
That means you have guys doing the tank changes that
don't really know what they're doing.
These are my opinions which are based on knowledge of
the industry I work in. For once around here, a
subject, that most likely nobody is going to out
knowledge me on...LOL!! The problem is to not use
industry terms that you guys won't understand.
***********************************
****Another part of a email*********
As far as Sunoco gas. I use to run it in my vechicles when I lived
down the street from one. It is by far better than your generic gas
such as Speedway, Meijer and such. I just prefer the others myself.
Especially sense up here in Genesee county, I do the tank changes for
Mobil. Every bit of Mobil gas in Genesee county comes out of tanks
that I filled...well for that matter same thing for all BP, Speedway,
and Sunoco...but Mobil is the only one that I do the actual tank
changes aka "cuts" for. I know what's in that gas.
In the south east MI area, the Mobil product comes from West Rd which
is pipelined in by my company and Wolverine Pipeline Co...honestly
not as good as my company. But they are very stringent on what they
receive. I know first hand because my father works at the Woodhaven
station for my company that "delievers" to that Mobil.
Marathon, is branded/made right in good ole' Detroit/River Rouge.
You can see the tanks off I-75 near Schafer Rd exit, south of the
River Rouge bridge, southbound side. You can see the smoke stacks
just north of those tanks. Right in between my companies Detroit
station that pumps that gas and fuel.
Sunoco, in S/E MI, my company does SOME with. That's another reason
I list it lower than the other companies. We do move some of their
product from the Toledo refinery to Delta Fuels in Novi. They store
and distribute it from there. But it's a smaller portian of the
Sunoco BIG PICTURE.
BP, comes from River Rouge tank terminal. Some of it is made there
and again some is piped in by Wolverine Pipeline Co. Not bad but not
as good as the Marathon or Mobil stuff.
See the more you know about it the more complicated it gets. I
myself and many guys that are really cars, dyno tuning and such, use
Mobil then Marathon. The motor guys say nothing else quite has the
actual octane to allow some real timing advancement. For example,
last time I was at the dyno the was a guy in there with a Stang and a
tank full of Citgo/7-11 C-93 (premium) and they couldn't advance his
timing because he didn't get a good shot of C-93 gas. He put in
cheap/generic gas.
Cale, I'm sure the IS300 requires 93..go with whatever but stay away
(if possible) from anything besides Mobil, Marathon, BP, Sunoco.
If you are just driving a standard car or truck...don't think about
it too much. But if you have a Meijer and a Marathon accross the
street from one another with the same price...pisst "get the
Marathon"!
I can keep going on this subject but then it gets more and more and
more complicated. Besides some of my thoughts on some of the other
companies are also based on proffesional expierence with those
companies.
GAS MAN with sore fingers...LOL!
*************************
>
> I'll give you Paul, Mr Haz Gixxer, Randall, and
> everybody else that cares more about the quality
> than
> the price.
>
> First off, if you want to bitch about the price STOP
> buying Speedway. They are the ones that control the
> price. They are the first to go up and then
> everybody
> else follows because why not, why not make more
> money
> off the pump. The problem is there is no reason
> for
> it. The price of the gas at the tank terminal only
> flexes by about $0.05, that's from its lowest to
> highest. So it might go up a penny at the tank but
> .15 at the pump. Also, Marathon owns speedway, it's
> their generic gas station.
>
> Which brings us Generic vs Branded gas. Like the
> old
> saying "don't buy gas from a gas station that
> doesn't
> hold the name of the refinery". The gas it self is
> the same UNTIL it is put into the semi truck to be
> hauled to the gas station. What happens is that the
> actual gas gets a additive injected into while it
> fills the semi. This is where the differences
> start.
>
> Generic is gas such as Speedway, KMart, Wal Mart,
> Sams, Admiral, Clark, Rich, Meijer, and many others
> that aren't list in the next list. The generic gas
> comes from Mobil, and Marathon gas tank terminals
> but
> again changes with the additives.
>
> BRANDED is Mobil, Marathon, BP (use to be Amoco),
> Sunoco, Shell. Side note, there use to be BP &
> Amoco.
> BP (British Petrl) bought Amoco (American Oil
> Company).
>
> The govt says that all these oil companies have to
> add
> "additives". The additives have different chemicals
> but mostly the same. The additives contain fuel
> milage enhancers, cleaners, evironmental crap and
> other good **** that your motor likes. The cleaners
> are good for your motor, duh! However, if the govt
> says you must inject "1" (I don't mean 1 additive I
> mean just 1 as a unit)that's all the generic gas'
> gets. However, the Branded gas inject 3 times that
> amount. This is to ensure that their gas performs
> better than the generic gas. HERE'S WHERE THE GAS
> STARTS GETTING MORE DIFFERENT.
>
> Branded GAS + 3 additive = Good GAS
>
> Then you have GAS + 1 additive(generic) + ethynol =
> generic gas. Which brings us to ethynol.
>
> This is something that the govt is pushing onto the
> oil companies. It is acholhol. The oil company
> such
> as Marathon gets a BIG tax break for using it in
> their
> generic gas. They get a tax break at the tank
> terminal, and the gas station. Here's the incentive
> for using it. It helps the gas burn MORE therefor
> cleaner. Cleaner means better for the tree huggers.
> Now they don't inj. ethynol into the branded gas.
>
> Now cleaner burn also means cleaner gas tank. Just
> think about it, you can clean stuff with acholhol.
> When the semi's are hauling all branded gas they get
> a
> type of "non-luster" to the inside of their
> trailers.
> Then they haul some ethynol inj. gas and from
> driving
> down the road (splish splash) gets the inside of the
> trailer all clean. Now we have all heard of these
> guys saying, I put that ethynol injected crap gas
> into
> my "car/truck/bike" and it ****ed it up. The
> problem
> is that the ethynol has cleaned out the gas tank and
> all that crud and crap has crapped up their gas
> filter
> and maybe injectors. You also may hear about it
> drying out o-rings and such. I try to use it
> everyonce and a while to keep everything clean and
> shinny but not all time.
>
> Bottom line....
>
> Generic gas gives you less good stuff plus ethynol.
>
> Branded gas gives you 3 times good stuff and no
> ethynol.
>
> Now I try to use Mobil, Marathon, BP, or Sunoco.
> Usually in that order. Then if all else fails
> Speedway...I generally stay away from anything else.
>
>
> Now this is not every bit of info on the subject but
> a
> desent low down. If you have any questions just let
> me know. I think that makes sense. There are more
> in's and out's to all of this but it's getting kind
> of
> long.
*************************************
***Another guys asks********
Mobil, Marathon, BP, or Sunoco...........
>
> WHY THAT ORDER?????
***************************************
Mobil because I know the way they keep up their
products in their tanks...Why because I do their tank
changes in Flint and know what their specifications
are on what they do and don't put in their tanks.
Marathon after that because I know what type of
product that the refinery in Detroit puts out. Good
stuff. However, I also know that Marathon will
"bubble" their gas in the winter with Butane. Mobil
does not!
I guess Marathon and Mobil can be interchanged as far
as their level of quality. See all the product in
Oakland, and Wayne county (as far as Mobil and
Marathon) comes out of 2 tank farms. Mobil comes
from West Rd. in Woodhaven. Marathon comes the
refinery/tank farm in Detroit.
As far as BP and Sunoco... I know how they make their
tank changes at their tank farms and that they just
don't run their biz as well as Mobil or Marathon.
Sunoco is also under going some company wide changes
with their truckers and operators (what I do). They
are putting these truckers info operators positions
purely based on seniority and not qualifications.
That means you have guys doing the tank changes that
don't really know what they're doing.
These are my opinions which are based on knowledge of
the industry I work in. For once around here, a
subject, that most likely nobody is going to out
knowledge me on...LOL!! The problem is to not use
industry terms that you guys won't understand.
***********************************
****Another part of a email*********
As far as Sunoco gas. I use to run it in my vechicles when I lived
down the street from one. It is by far better than your generic gas
such as Speedway, Meijer and such. I just prefer the others myself.
Especially sense up here in Genesee county, I do the tank changes for
Mobil. Every bit of Mobil gas in Genesee county comes out of tanks
that I filled...well for that matter same thing for all BP, Speedway,
and Sunoco...but Mobil is the only one that I do the actual tank
changes aka "cuts" for. I know what's in that gas.
In the south east MI area, the Mobil product comes from West Rd which
is pipelined in by my company and Wolverine Pipeline Co...honestly
not as good as my company. But they are very stringent on what they
receive. I know first hand because my father works at the Woodhaven
station for my company that "delievers" to that Mobil.
Marathon, is branded/made right in good ole' Detroit/River Rouge.
You can see the tanks off I-75 near Schafer Rd exit, south of the
River Rouge bridge, southbound side. You can see the smoke stacks
just north of those tanks. Right in between my companies Detroit
station that pumps that gas and fuel.
Sunoco, in S/E MI, my company does SOME with. That's another reason
I list it lower than the other companies. We do move some of their
product from the Toledo refinery to Delta Fuels in Novi. They store
and distribute it from there. But it's a smaller portian of the
Sunoco BIG PICTURE.
BP, comes from River Rouge tank terminal. Some of it is made there
and again some is piped in by Wolverine Pipeline Co. Not bad but not
as good as the Marathon or Mobil stuff.
See the more you know about it the more complicated it gets. I
myself and many guys that are really cars, dyno tuning and such, use
Mobil then Marathon. The motor guys say nothing else quite has the
actual octane to allow some real timing advancement. For example,
last time I was at the dyno the was a guy in there with a Stang and a
tank full of Citgo/7-11 C-93 (premium) and they couldn't advance his
timing because he didn't get a good shot of C-93 gas. He put in
cheap/generic gas.
Cale, I'm sure the IS300 requires 93..go with whatever but stay away
(if possible) from anything besides Mobil, Marathon, BP, Sunoco.
If you are just driving a standard car or truck...don't think about
it too much. But if you have a Meijer and a Marathon accross the
street from one another with the same price...pisst "get the
Marathon"!
I can keep going on this subject but then it gets more and more and
more complicated. Besides some of my thoughts on some of the other
companies are also based on proffesional expierence with those
companies.
GAS MAN with sore fingers...LOL!
Joined
·
20 Posts
i think most of the newer bikes have high compression ratios. i know mine has over 12.5:1 and clearly states to use a minimum of 91 octane. i have no problem getting 93 around here and thats what i use.
funny thing is, everything i own requires premium.. sure wish gas prices would go down...
funny thing is, everything i own requires premium.. sure wish gas prices would go down...
Joined
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39,300 Posts
That puts you in a pickel. However, if it was the other way around. You do no good running 93 in a car or whatever, timed for 87. You are just wasting your money and should send it my way instead. :lol:neverendingproject said:
I laugh all the time when guys run 108 oct. in their bikes because "it makes it faster".....NOT!! You can actually be creating less horsepower. The octane is at what temp the gas ignites. The higher the octane the hotter the cylinder gets before it ignites and creates that wonderfull stuff HORSEPOWER!! That's why for a really moded engine that is way timed out, they will run it richer, gas actually cools the cylinder or run a colder plug. See how that work? Isn't it fun?? :bike:
Joined
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9,257 Posts
The guy who sold me my 83 Yamaha, told me he used to run Turbo Blue in that bike from time to "really increase the performance" . He runs it religously in his old 79 chevy pickup that he fixed up. Thats all he runs in it, period. Expensive as all hell I know, and can only get it at the local Gulf station.
Know anything about that stuff? Im not going to run it in my 2000 Kat, but I was just curious what your thoughts were on it.
Great stuff !!! I may have missed this in that email so if I did, forgive me, but how close are the Sunoco, Mobil, stations etc..as far as standards in other parts of the country, or is it pretty much the same all around from what you know? I try to only run Sunoco, cuz there is no BP around my area, and Mobil station is a bit out of the way although if Im in that area I'll fill up there as well.
Thanks for the info :cheers:
Know anything about that stuff? Im not going to run it in my 2000 Kat, but I was just curious what your thoughts were on it.
Great stuff !!! I may have missed this in that email so if I did, forgive me, but how close are the Sunoco, Mobil, stations etc..as far as standards in other parts of the country, or is it pretty much the same all around from what you know? I try to only run Sunoco, cuz there is no BP around my area, and Mobil station is a bit out of the way although if Im in that area I'll fill up there as well.
Thanks for the info :cheers:
Joined
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10,007 Posts
Gas Man - Your experience is certainly local, but I'm sure similar standards apply everywhere. I'm familiar with all the brands you mentioned, having lived in the metro Detroit area for about 20 years.
Where I am now, we have BP/Amoco, Chevron, Shell, Conoco, Cowboys and a host of no-brand gas (MurphyUSA/Wal-Mart, Sam's Club, independants).
In my bike I'm especially careful to use good gas. My wife drives a Honda Element and that gets the least expensive we can find, usually Sam's.
Where I am now, we have BP/Amoco, Chevron, Shell, Conoco, Cowboys and a host of no-brand gas (MurphyUSA/Wal-Mart, Sam's Club, independants).
In my bike I'm especially careful to use good gas. My wife drives a Honda Element and that gets the least expensive we can find, usually Sam's.
Joined
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9,257 Posts
so Im wondering how new cars are designed to run on 87, or regular unleaded, but new bikes need to have at least mid-high grade. Just curious, thanks for any info. Does it have to do with the compression ?
I run our 2003 neon with regular unleaded, doesnt pin or anything, runs great..weird..
I run our 2003 neon with regular unleaded, doesnt pin or anything, runs great..weird..
Joined
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39,300 Posts
The turbo blue stuff is the 108 octane. If your vechicle of choice doesn't have it's timing advanced far enough for the 108, YOU'RE WASTING YOUR MONEY! You may also be hindering your performence moreover than getting more hp.Need4Speed750 said:
Most gas companies nationwide have the same guide lines on how they handle their tanks, products, and other doings with a gas tank farm. (Tarnk farm is those companies that have many above ground tanks that store the gas and then ship it out in the semi trucks to your local gas station.)
They list in the company guide lines how they must treat each type of pertroleom product, everything from 87 gas to diesel to jet fuel.
The top brands for my expierence are and in no particular order. Mobil, Marathon, Sunoco and BP. Shell as well can be good gas, it is at least a branded gas. Shell's gas is going to do nothing but get better in the mid west area, because my company just bought them out for some $530 million!
If the sunoco is closest, by all means go with that. Get the 94 octane, because you have to fig that you're going to get a .5 gal shot of 87 octane from the hose and pump piping. That is because the last thing pumped is usually always 87. Of coarse, this doesn't apply if they have seperate wonds for each grade.
Joined
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39,300 Posts
Yes, the brands may be more local but the ideas and guidelines are usually company wide for all of these oil companies. BP and Shell I've already talked about. I have heard good things about Chevron and Conoco, from other area's of my company when I have travelled back east to PA. But I see that you already grasp the idea. On a high performence machine go for the good stuff. But on your econo cars just get it cheap. :cheers:ShanMan14 said:
Joined
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39,300 Posts
It has nothing to do with the compression. It has to do with the timing. You can take a standard mustang or civic or whatever. Say it says to run 87,but you throw some bolt ons on it and get it tuned with some timing advancement. Now you need to run 89 or 93 in depending on how much timing you throw at it.Need4Speed750 said:so Im wondering how new cars are designed to run on 87, or regular unleaded, but new bikes need to have at least mid-high grade. Just curious, thanks for any info. Does it have to do with the compression ?
I run our 2003 neon with regular unleaded, doesnt pin or anything, runs great..weird..
When you advance the timing, your cylinder heats up because you're delaying the spark till the piston is higher up in its stroke so that when it goes boom if forces the piston down with more force, there for creating more power. However, if you don't have a high enought octane the gas will want to ignite before it should. Creating "pinging"! That's the basic idea.
The reason your Neon runs 87 is because it is tuned for it. And your bike has a more advanced timing for more power so it needs the higher octane.
Joined
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39,300 Posts
Any more questions....
A few more facts...there is no such thing as a midgrade 89 octane gas. Your gas stations only have a underground tank for 87 & 93. The 89 is blended at the gas pump.
OK one more, for Sunoco. They put eythonal (achoholic gas) into their 93 octane to make the 94.
Last one for now, many of your areas may run eythonal in all gas at a 10% amount. This is because of smog areas and the govt makes them run it. Don't worry it won't hurt you any, just thought I'd tell ya. It will say on the pump if the gas has it or not!
A few more facts...there is no such thing as a midgrade 89 octane gas. Your gas stations only have a underground tank for 87 & 93. The 89 is blended at the gas pump.
OK one more, for Sunoco. They put eythonal (achoholic gas) into their 93 octane to make the 94.
Last one for now, many of your areas may run eythonal in all gas at a 10% amount. This is because of smog areas and the govt makes them run it. Don't worry it won't hurt you any, just thought I'd tell ya. It will say on the pump if the gas has it or not!
Joined
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9,257 Posts
dude thanx for all the info....that explains alot, learn something every day....Thanks!!! :cheers:
This thread could be a candidate for stickiness as well...
This thread could be a candidate for stickiness as well...
Joined
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39,300 Posts
Yes, you're always better to use the lowest octane that your timing will allow. I know a few track guys running the RC51's and they use 89. The 87 was giving too much pre-detination or pinging but the 89 seems to work.Mojo said:
This is always something worth the time to check out. I just didn't want to get into that. That is more a discussion for tuning. If someone wants to expierement then go for it.
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