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V-Twin Moddin
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Sounds interesting but is too much reading!
 

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A creative way of working with what Kawasaki designed. But I would think creating more slip in the reverse direction could also make it easier for the clutch to slip in the forward direction. They are telling you to use thinner friction plates but the reality is that when the friction plates are too thin, your clutch starts to slip under load. Essentially, they are suggesting you use a slightly worn clutch to take advantage of the "back tourque limiter"...I guess it would work for a while.

Just my $.02
Larry
 

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V-Twin Moddin
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So what you're saying Larry is that this is entirely true... or that is will seriously hinder your clutches life??
 

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Gas Man said:
So what you're saying Larry is that this is entirely true... or that is will seriously hinder your clutches life??
Here is what I do know...when you are checking a clutch that has been slipping under load, you measure the thickness of the clutch plates to determine if they have reached their wear limit. Consider this, there are usually eight or nine friction plates so a little bit of wear on each one can equal a lot of wear in the system. In reality, when a clutch slips you often see one or two plates with excessive wear and the rest are about even.

What this article suggests is to use one or two slightly thinner plates to allow a little more slip when the back torque limiter is in use. My point is that while it may help in the reverse direction it could ultimately hurt in the forward direction as well.

All the back torque limiter does is release some of the pressure on the clutch pack (to allow slip) when torque is applied from the wheel to the engine (deceleration). They are recommending a method to get more slip...unfortunately that method can affect both directions of power tranfer, not just one.

Larry
 

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larryg said:
Here is what I do know...when you are checking a clutch that has been slipping under load, you measure the thickness of the clutch plates to determine if they have reached their wear limit. Consider this, there are usually eight or nine friction plates so a little bit of wear on each one can equal a lot of wear in the system. In reality, when a clutch slips you often see one or two plates with excessive wear and the rest are about even.

What this article suggests is to use one or two slightly thinner plates to allow a little more slip when the back torque limiter is in use. My point is that while it may help in the reverse direction it could ultimately hurt in the forward direction as well.

All the back torque limiter does is release some of the pressure on the clutch pack (to allow slip) when torque is applied from the wheel to the engine (deceleration). They are recommending a method to get more slip...unfortunately that method can affect both directions of power tranfer, not just one.

Larry
so basicly Larry, your saying that, that method would allow for it to slip a little when down shifting it would, or could, also allow it to slip when you put the power to it also....im new to this slipper clutch thing, but do understand the need for it in roadracing,(sort of) but anything that would make a clutch slip when power is applied is not a good thing,,,,,,,unless im missing the poiint completely.. :scratch:
 

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V-Twin Moddin
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I'm with ya Jack... confusion is set!!

15
 

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GsxrJack said:
so basicly Larry, your saying that, that method would allow for it to slip a little when down shifting it would, or could, also allow it to slip when you put the power to it also....im new to this slipper clutch thing, but do understand the need for it in roadracing,(sort of) but anything that would make a clutch slip when power is applied is not a good thing,,,,,,,unless im missing the poiint completely.. :scratch:
Exactly...the "slipper clutch" or "back torque limiter" is specifically engineered to work only in one direction (deceleration). This is because you don't really want the full effect of the engine braking when getting set up for a corner (or in a panic situation on the street) with the potential of having the rear wheel hopping or even locking up momentarily. While there are different methods of doing it, they usually involve letting the clutch slip to a certain extent (but again, ONLY in the reverse load direction).

In fact, one of the biggest development issues in MotoGP the last couple of years has been getting the slipper clutches to function the way the riders want...the 500cc two strokes didn't have any engine braking and it took a long time for the teams to get the big four strokes to behave similarly.

Not that I am :bthorse: but my only point was that the suggestion of putting in thinner plates could cause additional slip in both load directions and therefore didn't seem like the smartest idea to me. But again, that is my :2cents:

Larry
 

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:yikes: Which way did he go? Which way did he go? :scratch:

so your better of sticking with stock settings in your opinion.
 

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larryg said:
Exactly...the "slipper clutch" or "back torque limiter" is specifically engineered to work only in one direction (deceleration). This is because you don't really want the full effect of the engine braking when getting set up for a corner (or in a panic situation on the street) with the potential of having the rear wheel hopping or even locking up momentarily. While there are different methods of doing it, they usually involve letting the clutch slip to a certain extent (but again, ONLY in the reverse load direction).

In fact, one of the biggest development issues in MotoGP the last couple of years has been getting the slipper clutches to function the way the riders want...the 500cc two strokes didn't have any engine braking and it took a long time for the teams to get the big four strokes to behave similarly.

Not that I am :bthorse: but my only point was that the suggestion of putting in thinner plates could cause additional slip in both load directions and therefore didn't seem like the smartest idea to me. But again, that is my :2cents:

Larry
I understand your point on that set up, and thats what i thought the slipper clutch did, make it so not a lot of engine braking while downshifting into a corner.....

thanks
 

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V-Twin Moddin
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WOW...it's great to have you around again Larry!!
 

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jeeps84 said:
:leaving:
:yikes: Which way did he go? Which way did he go? :scratch:

so your better of sticking with stock settings in your opinion.
IMHO, if you are going to modify something, make it better without making something else worse. I would find a way to make the Kawasaki "back torque limiter" more effective, such as polishing the disengaging ramps to make them slide easier, rather than just make the whole clutch slip more.

I'm done :bthorse:

Larry
 

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V-Twin Moddin
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Larry... YOU ARE THE MAN!!

END OF STORY!!
 
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