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SpeedWerks.com said:
Actually, we carry both of those brands, they just aren't on our site yet. 20,000 products left to enter in our online store and counting....

And yes, kneedraggers has a beautiful site. I tend to not like flash, but their use of it is really classy and not overdone.

Laura
You dont like flash? 80% of the web runs in flash.
Click me!!!

Some people use IDIOT software like Front page and IBM WebSphere Studio Homepage Builder that allows a 12 year old to build a working website. But then once you get your site working in the train wreck of software app you notice scripting is shady, so you use a site like CodeLifter.com that steals other peoples hard work and allows the hacks that run this software to make their website look and act like they know what they are doing.

My current company has a lawsuit pending againt codelifter.com, along with clients that downloaded the Companies copy ritten software.

To view how a website is setup rightclick on the webpage and view source.

Click me!!!
 

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twisty said:
You dont like flash? 80% of the web runs in flash.
Click me!!!

Some people use IDIOT software like Front page and IBM WebSphere Studio Homepage Builder that allows a 12 year old to build a working website. But then once you get your site working in the train wreck of software app you notice scripting is shady, so you use a site like CodeLifter.com that steals other peoples hard work and allows the hacks that run this software to make their website look and act like they know what they are doing.

[/URL]
I don't like flash when it is overdone, which a lot of people do. As I stated, Kneedraggers did a great job with theirs. It's very tasteful.

As far as our site, the normal HTML pages are done by me...a NON-web person. So yes, I use Web Sphere because it allows us "normal" people to be able to build a web page. As far as the cart and all of the backend, that is hand coded by Roach, who was a software engineer for AOL for seven years. I wish I was as savvy as he is with 'puters, but I am just a college graduate of journalism and marketing. Not computers.

As far as "codelifter.com". I have no clue as to what the heck that is, and there is no reason to steal other people's code when you can write your own. And trust me, after seven years at AOL, Roach has no problem writing his own code. :dthumb:

Kneedraggers.com has been open for four years now, and spends a ton of time on their site...actually has a dedicated person to work on it. Unfortunately, we are just not at that point, but hopefully we will get there in the future. For right now, the updating is done by me so Roach has time to work on the back end and continually work on improving our site, and unfortunately, I have to use IDIOT software like Web Sphere. I do the best I can.

Laura
 

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SpeedWerks.com said:
I don't like flash when it is overdone, which a lot of people do. As I stated, Kneedraggers did a great job with theirs. It's very tasteful.

As far as our site, the normal HTML pages are done by me...a NON-web person. So yes, I use Web Sphere because it allows us "normal" people to be able to build a web page. As far as the cart and all of the backend, that is hand coded by Roach, who was a software engineer for AOL for seven years. I wish I was as savvy as he is with 'puters, but I am just a college graduate of journalism and marketing. Not computers.

As far as "codelifter.com". I have no clue as to what the heck that is, and there is no reason to steal other people's code when you can write your own. And trust me, after seven years at AOL, Roach has no problem writing his own code. :dthumb:

Kneedraggers.com has been open for four years now, and spends a ton of time on their site...actually has a dedicated person to work on it. Unfortunately, we are just not at that point, but hopefully we will get there in the future. For right now, the updating is done by me so Roach has time to work on the back end and continually work on improving our site, and unfortunately, I have to use IDIOT software like Web Sphere. I do the best I can.

Laura
Keep up the good work Laura! :dthumb:
We all have to start some where!
I'm old fashioned anyway. Provide me with a easy to find phone # and Ill give the companies a call for what I'm looking for.
Its just easier to explain what I'm looking for than to guess if its right on a web page. (limited description) or in your case my just not have listed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
SpeedWerks.com said:
I don't like flash when it is overdone, which a lot of people do. As I stated, Kneedraggers did a great job with theirs. It's very tasteful.

As far as our site, the normal HTML pages are done by me...a NON-web person. So yes, I use Web Sphere because it allows us "normal" people to be able to build a web page. As far as the cart and all of the backend, that is hand coded by Roach, who was a software engineer for AOL for seven years. I wish I was as savvy as he is with 'puters, but I am just a college graduate of journalism and marketing. Not computers.

As far as "codelifter.com". I have no clue as to what the heck that is, and there is no reason to steal other people's code when you can write your own. And trust me, after seven years at AOL, Roach has no problem writing his own code. :dthumb:

Kneedraggers.com has been open for four years now, and spends a ton of time on their site...actually has a dedicated person to work on it. Unfortunately, we are just not at that point, but hopefully we will get there in the future. For right now, the updating is done by me so Roach has time to work on the back end and continually work on improving our site, and unfortunately, I have to use IDIOT software like Web Sphere. I do the best I can.

Laura
Im sorry didnt know you guys used websphere. i havent had the time to check out how you site was written but I didnt meam to include you guys as Idiots....
 

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twisty said:
Some people use IDIOT software like Front page and IBM WebSphere Studio Homepage Builder that allows a 12 year old to build a working website. But then once you get your site working in the train wreck of software app you notice scripting is shady, so you use a site like CodeLifter.com that steals other peoples hard work and allows the hacks that run this software to make their website look and act like they know what they are doing.

Or, like Amazon.com (the worlds largest e-tailer), you don't use use things like flash that alienates the millions of people still on dial-up that will instantly leave your site when it takes longer than 20 seconds to load. Or not work correctly on the 18% of the market that isn't using MSIE and flash is either painfully slow (still a problem with some flash animations in firefox/mozilla) or not render correctly (Mac and Linux/Unix systems). I will not use MSIE on my windoze machine, and none of my other machines can even run it if I wanted to, so I see this a lot when visiting heavy flash sites (speedtv.com is a prime example ... their main page does not render correctly in Firefox).

A pretty website with animaitons often isn't the best way to do things :) If everyone was on a broadband connection and you knew the pages would render exactly the same for everyone ... then, it wouldn't be a concern. A mixture generally isn't bad, but in many cases it doesn't really add much to the presentation unless you've got a graphics designer doing your animations for you.

I tend to do layout in a WYSIWYG tool to get a feel for how I want things to look, then hand-code everything. I think flash is cool, but I don't want the problems I outlined above when trying to reach the broadest audience possible. I sometimes use javascript for dynamic stuff like populating pull-down menus, but that's about it. Pure HTML is the only way you can guarantee fast loadtimes and cross platform and browser compatability, which is really important for a business site. For a personal site ... eh, I'd probably have a cool flash thing :)

EDIT: I have seen a few sites done entirely in flash that actually have a very good UI, load fast, and render correctly on all my machines. They are few and far between though, and you'd need a REALLY good flash designer and do a lot of testing to achieve it.

- Roach
 

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SpeedWerks.com said:
Or, like Amazon.com (the worlds largest e-tailer), you don't use use things like flash that alienates the millions of people still on dial-up that will instantly leave your site when it takes longer than 20 seconds to load. Or not work correctly on the 18% of the market that isn't using MSIE and flash is either painfully slow (still a problem with some flash animations in firefox/mozilla) or not render correctly (Mac and Linux/Unix systems). I will not use MSIE on my windoze machine, and none of my other machines can even run it if I wanted to, so I see this a lot when visiting heavy flash sites (speedtv.com is a prime example ... their main page does not render correctly in Firefox).

A pretty website with animaitons often isn't the best way to do things :) If everyone was on a broadband connection and you knew the pages would render exactly the same for everyone ... then, it wouldn't be a concern. A mixture generally isn't bad, but in many cases it doesn't really add much to the presentation unless you've got a graphics designer doing your animations for you.

I tend to do layout in a WYSIWYG tool to get a feel for how I want things to look, then hand-code everything. I think flash is cool, but I don't want the problems I outlined above when trying to reach the broadest audience possible. I sometimes use javascript for dynamic stuff like populating pull-down menus, but that's about it. Pure HTML is the only way you can guarantee fast loadtimes and cross platform and browser compatability, which is really important for a business site. For a personal site ... eh, I'd probably have a cool flash thing :)

EDIT: I have seen a few sites done entirely in flash that actually have a very good UI, load fast, and render correctly on all my machines. They are few and far between though, and you'd need a REALLY good flash designer and do a lot of testing to achieve it.

- Roach
All my flash sites open and render entirley on evey brower and machine. When your a designer you have to load all extentions and pluging for media types. With way maket is right now you can efford to make janky site.

My dominos website is the apple of my eye. There is ton of stuff that customers cant see but I designed the STAR system that allows all the stores to logon and order suppleys from the site. I desinged the shell before i left them for the internet customers to order pizza over the web. Great for hackers, pornsurfers and post whores, they dont even need to leave thier computer.

I just wish their pizza was a good as the site I built them.

Dominos
 

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SpeedWerks.com said:
Or, like Amazon.com (the worlds largest e-tailer), you don't use use things like flash that alienates the millions of people still on dial-up that will instantly leave your site when it takes longer than 20 seconds to load. Or not work correctly on the 18% of the market that isn't using MSIE and flash is either painfully slow (still a problem with some flash animations in firefox/mozilla) or not render correctly (Mac and Linux/Unix systems).
- Roach

And I thank-you for it...Since I moved out to the dirt road...my dial up has gone from avg of 48 - 52 K to 24K... :yikes: No cable :yikes: :yikes: ...am investigating satellite ISP's that will be compatible with Direct TV. Direct wants over 100 bucks... :nonod: :cursin: ...Any Ideas?? may need another dish??

Oh, Yeah... :jacked:
 

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twisty said:
All my flash sites open and render entirley on evey brower and machine.
Including that one ... actually renders perfectly on this machine (Sun Ultra5 running Solaris 9 and Firefox).

But that's what I'm talking about - it's using a nice mix of flash and HTML that isn't slow and cumbersome. Alpinestars' new site for example ... I frigging hate it. It's pretty to look at, but painfull to navigate and use. Summit Point Raceway has the same problem with their new Flash website - the schedule listing has the "horribly slow in firefox" problem, and it takes like 3 minutes to scroll through it!

Once I finish a lot of the new code I'm working on now for the back-end of our site, I'm going to be re-visiting our site design and layout to add a lot of new things. I wouldn't mind adding some small flash animations especially on the main catalog page, but for us it's a big investment in time over doing plain HTML which is hard to justify.

- Roach
 

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bumblebee said:
And I thank-you for it...Since I moved out to the dirt road...my dial up has gone from avg of 48 - 52 K to 24K... :yikes: No cable :yikes: :yikes: ...am investigating satellite ISP's that will be compatible with Direct TV. Direct wants over 100 bucks... :nonod: :cursin: ...Any Ideas?? may need another dish??

Oh, Yeah... :jacked:
You are SO screwed :D

The reason your dial-up is only running at 24k is because you're beind a lovely piece of equipment the phone companies were deploying in the '80s (and even through the '90s in a lot of areas). It's called a lightspan unit and it chanelizes fiber to analog phone lines running over copper ... giving each channel only 28k of bandwidth. A 56k modem will only connect at 28k (which after overhead, leaves you at 24k). Oh, and it's not compatable with DSL either. The only high-speed technology that will run over it is ISDN (or iDSL which is a DSL technology using ISDN signaling) running at a symmetrical 128k for an obscene amount of money.

(This was all learned the hard way after purchasing a *brand new house* in '98 in the DC metro area that was behind one of these frigging things. I paid $120 a month for a year for iDSL (had to have it for work). They (Verizon) later deployed remote terminals to these areas to allow DSL to work over fiber).

Satellite is expensive because they have to reserve a lot of satellite bandwidth for it. Cheapest I've seen is about $85 a month (we looked into it for having internet at the track with the RV).

- Roach
 

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twisty said:
Im sorry didnt know you guys used websphere. i havent had the time to check out how you site was written but I didnt meam to include you guys as Idiots....
No worries. I do the best I can, and I'm happy with that. Hopefully I'll get better as time goes on, but until then, the Idiot program does a good job for me. LOL! :cheers:
 

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Here's how this thread is written. I had to shorten it to make it fit :lol:

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">
<html dir="ltr" lang="en">
<head>
<title>TwoWheelForum - Web development software - Split from </div><br />
<br />
<br />
Or, like Amazon.com (the worlds largest e-tailer), you don't use use things like flash that alienates the millions of people still on dial-up that will instantly leave your site when it takes longer than 20 seconds to load. Or not work correctly on the 18% of the market that isn't using MSIE and flash is either painfully slow (still a problem with some flash animations in firefox/mozilla) or not render correctly (Mac and Linux/Unix systems). I will not use MSIE on my windoze machine, and none of my other machines can even run it if I wanted to, so I see this a lot when visiting heavy flash sites (speedtv.com is a prime example ... their main page does not render correctly in Firefox). <br />
<br />
A pretty website with animaitons often isn't the best way to do things <img src="http://www.twowheelforum.com/images/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Smile" class="inlineimg" /> If everyone was on a broadband connection and you knew the pages would render exactly the same for everyone ... then, it wouldn't be a concern. A mixture generally isn't bad, but in many cases it doesn't really add much to the presentation unless you've got a graphics designer doing your animations for you. <br />
<br />
I tend to do layout in a WYSIWYG tool to get a feel for how I want things to look, then hand-code everything. I think flash is cool, but I don't want the problems I outlined above when trying to reach the broadest audience possible. I sometimes use javascript for dynamic stuff like populating pull-down menus, but that's about it. Pure HTML is the only way you can guarantee fast loadtimes and cross platform and browser compatability, which is really important for a business site. For a personal site ... eh, I'd probably have a cool flash thing <img src="http://www.twowheelforum.com/images/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Smile" class="inlineimg" /><br />
<br />
EDIT: I have seen a few sites done entirely in flash that actually have a very good UI, load fast, and render correctly on all my machines. They are few and far between though, and you'd need a REALLY good flash designer and do a lot of testing to achieve it.<br />
<br />
- Roach</div>
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>SpeedWerks.com</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic">Or, like Amazon.com (the worlds largest e-tailer), you don't use use things like flash that alienates the millions of people still on dial-up that will instantly leave your site when it takes longer than 20 seconds to load. Or not work correctly on the 18% of the market that isn't using MSIE and flash is either painfully slow (still a problem with some flash animations in firefox/mozilla) or not render correctly (Mac and Linux/Unix systems). I will not use MSIE on my windoze machine, and none of my other machines can even run it if I wanted to, so I see this a lot when visiting heavy flash sites (speedtv.com is a prime example ... their main page does not render correctly in Firefox). <br />
<br />
A pretty website with animaitons often isn't the best way to do things <img src="http://www.twowheelforum.com/images/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Smile" class="inlineimg" /> If everyone was on a broadband connection and you knew the pages would render exactly the same for everyone ... then, it wouldn't be a concern. A mixture generally isn't bad, but in many cases it doesn't really add much to the presentation unless you've got a graphics designer doing your animations for you. <br />
<br />
I tend to do layout in a WYSIWYG tool to get a feel for how I want things to look, then hand-code everything. I think flash is cool, but I don't want the problems I outlined above when trying to reach the broadest audience possible. I sometimes use javascript for dynamic stuff like populating pull-down menus, but that's about it. Pure HTML is the only way you can guarantee fast loadtimes and cross platform and browser compatability, which is really important for a business site. For a personal site ... eh, I'd probably have a cool flash thing <img src="http://www.twowheelforum.com/images/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Smile" class="inlineimg" /><br />
<br />
EDIT: I have seen a few sites done entirely in flash that actually have a very good UI, load fast, and render correctly on all my machines. They are few and far between though, and you'd need a REALLY good flash designer and do a lot of testing to achieve it.<br />
<br />
- Roach</div>

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All my flash sites open and render entirley on evey brower and machine. When your a designer you have to load all extentions and pluging for media types. With way maket is right now you can efford to make janky site.<br />
<br />
My dominos website is the apple of my eye. There is ton of stuff that customers cant see but I designed the STAR system that allows all the stores to logon and order suppleys from the site. I desinged the shell before i left them for the internet customers to order pizza over the web. Great for hackers, pornsurfers and post whores, they dont even need to leave thier computer.<br />
<br />
I just wish their pizza was a good as the site I built them.<br />
<br />
<a href="http://dominos.com/dominos_pizza/home.nsf/vwContentByKey/W256MK28681DENNEN" target="_blank">Dominos</a></div>
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All that does is give me a headache! I don't know how you guys who build sites all day can look at all of that gobledygook!

I prefer my easy web sphere program. No need to look at the HTML if I don't have to. However, as twisty mentioned, it does add a bunch of jargon and useless stuff that I don't understand. I am constantly asking Roach "why the heck is this doing this instead of what I want it to?" He'll go straight to the html and say "because it added this and that and the other..." and then he proceeds to go into "geek" mode about how he hates these programs and that's why coding for yourself is better and I should read this book and that book...and that is when my ears close and I say "yes, dear." :rofl:
Laura
 

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I only do the basic html pages on our site. I don't ever even look at code because I don't know anything beyond basic tags. I know how to add text, a table and graphics because the program does it for you. Being that you are a web guru, you'd probably be really scared if you even saw me try to do that.

Laura
 
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